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SAT score distributions in Michigan

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Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#401

Post by lukas099 »

treis wrote: post #45
fullshark wrote: post #2

This anecdote is really something https://infoproc.blogspot.com/2022/10/sat-score-distribution...

I'm having trouble coming up with the right words to make my point. But, to me, this application says "my parents made me do a lot of shit" more than it says that this person is exceptional. What's this kid's resume if he's born in the hood to a single mom instead of a Boston suburb to an associate partner at IBM? IMHO it's sour grapes from someone that tried to game the system but didn't get the prize they wanted.

> But, to me, this application says...

To me, it says that a kid had ambition, intelligence, determination, and conscientiousness, but to each his own.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#403

Post by marcusverus »

dqpb wrote: post #337
marcusverus wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That said, it's clearly not racial based, because you can take a look at various non-American black populations and see big differences in educational levels and cultural values. There are big differences in educational levels and cultural views within every racial group. Is that relevant to the question of whether there are significant mean differences between racial groups on the population level?

First you have to define a sensible racial grouping. Good luck.

Huh? Sensible racial grouping is trivial. The overwhelming majority of people on earth fall neatly into racial cateogies of white (European), black (African), Native American (American Indian), or Pacific Islander. Sure, the edges are fuzzy, (and good luck with the whole race/ethnicity thing vis-a-vis hispanics) but to pretend that makes it difficult to measuring population-level averages is just silly.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#404

Post by ralphmelish »

mistrial9 wrote: post #334
ralphmelish wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are wrong. 'Caucasian' is used to classify white Europeans. The US Government defines 'Asians' as 'having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam.'[0] [0] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/note/US/RHI625221#:~:... .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_classification_of_India... lots of anecdata there -- the division in the US politically between former slave-owning states and those opposed to slavery, and their vacillating political power, definitely adds to the extreme cases listed here. Plenty of classification and census work counts the majority of people with Indian Sub-continent history as "caucasian" . Those with the reve…

The US Census Bureau have been categorising Indians as Asians for more than 20 years. I'm not interested in any racial discussion, just stating how they are classified as.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#405

Post by dirtyid »

daemoens wrote: post #252
thwayunion wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The USA is home to the vast majority of leading universities, and no amount of PISA score dominance by Chinese children can change that. Those leadership placements are measured primarily by academic standards, and particularly research output. In CS, over 60% of PhD students -- the food soldiers of academia -- are here on student visas. Another huge fraction are first gen residents/citizens. I'd guess fewer than 2…

> If we get to the point where the USA depends on Chinese out migration in order to compete economically or militarily with China, China may well choose to turn off the spigot. America's biggest advantage over other nations is our immigration system, regardless of the myriad issues it has. The best and brightest are born all over the world, and they immigrate to America. Even if China stops immigration, we still have…

>6/7ths of the world to pull from.

Realistically US draws from ~1.2B of English speakers. PRC draws from ~1.1B of Mandarin speakers. Actually pool of relevant STEM talent is obviously much smaller, but PRC generates about as much as all OECD countries combined, which is multiple times US can absorb via immigration unless (unpopular) shift in policy. PRC academic / S&T / R&D pipeline is maturing towards generating "best and brightest" in numbers comparable to rest 6/7th of the world, much of whom are already retained in PRC. And despite how many Chinese foreign students are in western universities, this isn't the 90s anymore where CCP actually sent out their best and brightest to learn abroad, most of the international PRC students now are those who can't hack it in high competitive PRC system but have the wealth to pursue education abroad. They're extremely competitive bench warmers. Which isn't to say US brain drain isn't a great competitive advantage, it just may not be disproportionately so, something that keeps US in the game instead of thoroughly dominating it.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#406

Post by danans »

treis wrote: post #387
danans wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is an article that explicitly breaks down the phenomenon with LA public schools: https://laist.com/news/education/los-angeles-unified-parent-... California is unique in that it intentionally gives less funding to higher-family-income public schools, expecting them to make up the gap with private fundraising. The result is that after adjusting for private donations, per pupil spending in CA is roughly equivalent…

>Parents in these 34 most-affluent LAUSD elementaries donate an average of $876 per student, our analysis shows. That's like 1/5 of the gap between APS and the next highest school district. It looks like the wealthiest in LA are able to make up for the difference. But I am suspect of this article. The parental contribution is only 0.4% of the LAUSD budget but somehow it's making up a 20% funding gap between low and h…

> The parental contribution is only 0.4% of the LAUSD budget

> but somehow it's making up a 20% funding gap between low and high income schools.

Where are you getting the 0.4% coming from? Parents don't generally donate directly to public school district budgets. They donate to school PTAs and school-affiliated non-profits.

Perhaps you are referring to https://achieve.lausd.net/donorschoose but that's totally unrelated to outside PTA fundraising via the parent community, and it's usually tiny amounts used to pay for things like classroom supplies.

It's pretty straightforward. The article says $876 in private PTA donations are raised per year per pupil in the wealthier schools, and that is still $300 shy of what poorer schools spend overall per pupil. So the wealthier schools only make 3/4 of the spending gap.

I know this from direct experience since I write a check annually to my kid's California public school PTA for roughly the same amount.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#407

Post by credit_guy »

aabajian wrote: post #11

The SATs, particularly the mathematics score, is very much a reflection of your parents' willingness to push you academically. The stratification is more granular than Asian versus Black or White versus Native America. For example, Jewish students excel beyond the Caucasian average while Cambodian and other Southeast Asian Immigrants perform significantly below the national average for Asian Americans. The challenge…

> to offer an educational system that provides access to quality education regardless of parental involvement

This sounds good in theory, but it can have unintended consequences. One way to read what you are saying here is that we should have a system where parent involvement has no impact.

I may be biased (as a parent), but I think parental involvement should be encouraged, not disincentiviezed. Parental involvement is one of the forces of nature. It should not go to waste.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#408

Post by thehappypm »

lukas099 wrote: post #402
thehappypm wrote: post #284

This is almost completely explained by income. https://statisticalatlas.com/state/Michigan/Household-Income

What exactly do you mean when you say it is 'explained by' income? edit: added '?'

The ethnic groups with the highest incomes are the ones with the highest SAT scores.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#409

Post by PubliusMI »

netheril96 wrote: post #170
someguydave wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes there is a way, you put kids in test prep and see if they do better. They generally do not improve much. The SAT is an IQ test, and IQ is mostly inherited from your parents.

So you are saying that Asians have higher intelligence, and not just a little bit higher, but significantly higher than other race?

Is this supposed to be a "Gotcha"?

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#410

Post by lukas099 »

thehappypm wrote: post #408
lukas099 wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly do you mean when you say it is 'explained by' income? edit: added '?'

The ethnic groups with the highest incomes are the ones with the highest SAT scores.

So there is a correlation. What does this explain, and how?
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