SAT score distributions in Michigan • Hacker News Board

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#271

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 3:53 PM UTC

eternalban wrote: post #172

aabajian wrote: post #11

The SATs, particularly the mathematics score, is very much a reflection of your parents' willingness to push you academically. The stratification is more granular than Asian versus Black or White versus Native America. For example, Jewish students excel beyond the Caucasian average while Cambodian and other Southeast Asian Immigrants perform significantly below the national average for Asian Americans. The challenge…

> The SATs, particularly the mathematics score, is very much a reflection of your parents' willingness to push you academically. I scored very high in both. Believe me, as new immigrants we were completely clueless about the heated race to top spots. In my case, credits goes to my makers (mom and dad :) and the fact that Iran had fairly good public schools. Culture is important. Two relevant shockers for me (as a ver…

[deleted]

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#272

Post by nluken » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 3:54 PM UTC

thwayunion wrote: post #148

treis wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm having trouble coming up with the right words to make my point. But, to me, this application says "my parents made me do a lot of shit" more than it says that this person is exceptional. What's this kid's resume if he's born in the hood to a single mom instead of a Boston suburb to an associate partner at IBM? IMHO it's sour grapes from someone that tried to game the system but didn't get the prize they wanted.

It's a real shame that this guy posted his son's resume non-anonymously, but I have to agree. Aside from grades and AP scores, it's a lot of "showing up" dressed up as accomplishment. JV track explains itself, the debate stuff is the equivalent of getting third place in one track event at one regional meet, and Eagle Scout is impressive but IMO doesn't show anything that doing well in school doesn't already show. Eve…

Absolutely agree with your point, and I'll add onto it from experience.

> The ones setting themselves apart with track are participating in Varsity at least a few years, doing well at State, and a likely courting at least D2 athletic scholarships

Sports (especially track and field) don't set you apart at all as an applicant for unless you're good enough to make the college's varsity team. That's the sole metric highly selective schools are using to assess athletic ability unless you have some extenuating circumstance that makes your participation in the sport especially meaningful.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#273

Post by floren » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 3:54 PM UTC

socialismisok wrote: post #46

timmg wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The challenge for large and heterogeneously diverse nations like the U.S. is to offer an educational system that provides access to quality education regardless of parental involvement. But don’t your stats show that we already do? We “provide access” to everyone. Otherwise it wouldn’t matter how much the parents pushed the children. If your argument is that the system should push the children harder, how do you pr…

We don't provide access to everyone. If you are a kid who doesn't get fed at home, and you don't get a school meal until lunch, do you have the same access? If your school can't afford state of the art computers or technology, do you have the same access? If your school has class sizes of 35 and mine has class sizes of 18, do we both have the same access?

> If you are a kid who doesn't get fed at home, and you don't get a school meal until lunch, do you have the same access?

My rural school district provided free breakfast for precisely this reason... is it not a common thing?

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#274

Post by throwaway8582 » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 3:55 PM UTC

mgfist wrote: post #64

davidn20 wrote: post #29

I think as a society we need to admit different race, in general, have different culture, values, and strengths. I don't even think that's a radical idea, but somehow it is. I have been watching this football competition youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrbljwLslYI The fun and athleticism you see is awe-inspiring, but I haven't seen a single Asian person competing or even at the event. My guess is a m…

It's not racial, it's cultural, socio-economic, and historical. Things like redlining, jim crow, GI Bill (lack-there-of for black people after WW2) all directly lead to the huge educational/economic inequality we see today. That said, it's clearly not racial based, because you can take a look at various non-American black populations and see big differences in educational levels and cultural values. For example, Nige…

> For example, Nigerian immigrants (both first and second gen) are vastly more educated than the average American

This is not a good example because the immigration process itself is highly selective. For the most part, only best and brightest from Nigeria are able to come to the US. Try comparing the average black American to the average Nigerian in Nigeria instead.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#275

Post by fleetwoodsnack » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 3:55 PM UTC

treis wrote: post #188

fleetwoodsnack wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but more germane here: it’s also being used by you to discredit real accomplishments with hypothetical ones. I’m not discounting that you could be right, just that you could be right in a totally contrived scenario.

You're assuming your point by calling them "real accomplishments". But that's the whole debate. Is being an Eagle Scout a "real accomplishment" or is it a participation award? And if it's a participation award did the kid get it through his own initiative or because he was forced by his parents? The answer to that question is the whole debate. And this is not a "totally contrived" scenario. The guy is posting his kid…

Eagle Scout is the highest rank in American scouting, and is achieved by less than 5% of those who pursue it. Eagle Scouts include U.S. Presidents, Judges, Astronauts, Generals, and technology Founders. Those who achieve it and pursue a career in the military are advanced to a higher rank and higher payscale upon enlistment in all branches of the armed services.

https://www.baylorisr.org/wp-content/uploads/Boy-Scouts-Repo...

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#276

Post by googlryas » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 3:56 PM UTC

adamsmith143 wrote: post #33

arolihas wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that abhorrent to you?

The real world is not a monoculture so why would you want your child to socialize in one?

"Asian" isn't a culture. Hell, even "Chinese" isn't a culture. China recognizes 55 ethnic minority groups, plus the Han majority. I'm sure if you put one person from each group into a classroom, you might say "They're all Chinese. Monoculture!", but it couldn't be further from the truth.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#277

Post by glerk » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 3:57 PM UTC

hker999 wrote: post #3

fullshark wrote: post #2

This anecdote is really something https://infoproc.blogspot.com/2022/10/sat-score-distribution...

The Harvard university president has stated many times that admissions are weighted and if you are Asian, will have a much harder time getting accepted. It seems racism is accepted in academia, when it affects a demographic you deem 'problematic'

This is the subject of a current litigation. Hopefully the Supreme Court comes through and puts an end to this clown show.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#278

Post by coryrc » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 3:57 PM UTC

eternalban wrote: post #172

aabajian wrote: post #11

The SATs, particularly the mathematics score, is very much a reflection of your parents' willingness to push you academically. The stratification is more granular than Asian versus Black or White versus Native America. For example, Jewish students excel beyond the Caucasian average while Cambodian and other Southeast Asian Immigrants perform significantly below the national average for Asian Americans. The challenge…

> The SATs, particularly the mathematics score, is very much a reflection of your parents' willingness to push you academically. I scored very high in both. Believe me, as new immigrants we were completely clueless about the heated race to top spots. In my case, credits goes to my makers (mom and dad :) and the fact that Iran had fairly good public schools. Culture is important. Two relevant shockers for me (as a ver…

> Culture has a lot to do with it.

If you admit this, you'd be saying one culture is worse and needs to change. One party in the US is against saying anyone but white men (and Karen) can do anything wrong, so the problem is everyone else. But it obviously isn't, some groups have cultures which denigrate learning and the consequence is those groups do not succeed academically or economically.

All of the USA has at least some cultural issues (drunk driving is popular, for example). So who could we really trust to drive cultural change? Current teachers seem to be reinforcing victim mindset in children, the entire educational system is setup to keep kids away from people doing better than them -- grade separation alone, for example, prevents kids from learning from peers who already understand the material. The churches are corrupt and fractionated. Who would have the moral authority to drive cultural change for the better?

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#279

Post by ralphmelish » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 3:57 PM UTC

mistrial9 wrote: post #196

athew wrote: post #18

I find it very surprising that the term "Asian" lives in this twilight zone where nobody is sure if it includes India, the second largest country in the region. For the SAT distribution tables, the term Asian includes Indians I assume, while the following table from the German professor does not break out India. smh.

generally in the USA, w.r.t. demographics, people from India are classified as 'caucasian' source: professional demographics practice in the USA using Federal Census data

You are wrong. 'Caucasian' is used to classify white Europeans.

The US Government defines 'Asians' as 'having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam.'[0]

[0] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/note/US/RHI625221#:~:....

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#280

Post by marcusverus » Thu, Oct 06, 2022, 3:58 PM UTC

mgfist wrote: post #64

davidn20 wrote: post #29

I think as a society we need to admit different race, in general, have different culture, values, and strengths. I don't even think that's a radical idea, but somehow it is. I have been watching this football competition youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrbljwLslYI The fun and athleticism you see is awe-inspiring, but I haven't seen a single Asian person competing or even at the event. My guess is a m…

It's not racial, it's cultural, socio-economic, and historical. Things like redlining, jim crow, GI Bill (lack-there-of for black people after WW2) all directly lead to the huge educational/economic inequality we see today. That said, it's clearly not racial based, because you can take a look at various non-American black populations and see big differences in educational levels and cultural values. For example, Nige…

> That said, it's clearly not racial based, because you can take a look at various non-American black populations and see big differences in educational levels and cultural values.

There are big differences in educational levels and cultural views within every racial group. Is that relevant to the question of whether there are significant mean differences between racial groups on the population level?