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SAT score distributions in Michigan

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Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#201

Post by chewbacha »

bloaf wrote: post #185
chewbacha wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is if you are missing more than 10% and trying to make extrapolations. Also, there is variations between individuals between tests. You’d need to make multiple samples to reduce noise from the test itself.

So if you're worried about it, do the math. My napkin calc puts the margin at around +-0.3, enough to easily separate 3% from 5%.

So, you expect the exact same results next year? If the same students all retook the SAT with different questions would we get the exact same breakdown +/-0.3%? I doubt it. These data are for this specific measurement and must be tempered in their extrapolation into other areas. I don’t think you can declare them significant.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#202

Post by megaman821 »

uglycoyote wrote: post #166

has the SAT gotten way easier on recent decades or have students just gotten that much smarter or better at taking it, and universities gotten a lot stricter about accepting students with lower scores? one of the commenters in the linked article mentions that their son, with an SAT score of over 1500, was rejected by a number of normal state universities such as the University of Texas at Austin (a great school but n…

It matters to what degree you are applying too. The average SAT score will vary by school (I think the School of Engineering is the highest and the College of Natural Sciences the second) and by major. UT has a top 10 CS program and will only accept a certain number of out-of-state residents. We would have to know the academic achievements of the out-of-state residents applying to the CS program to say if anything funny is going on here.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#203

Post by skavi »

geraldwhen wrote: post #68
mberning wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re an outlier. That’s great. Most people are not scoring that high without a lot of effort, and a basic public school education, regardless of the quality, is not going to get them there. They will need additional resources within the home and outside of normal schooling.

None of my friends scored below 1400 and none had tutors. All public school.

This seems to say more about your friends than anything else.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#204

Post by bm3719 »

qsort wrote: post #84
davidn20 wrote: post #29

I think as a society we need to admit different race, in general, have different culture, values, and strengths. I don't even think that's a radical idea, but somehow it is. I have been watching this football competition youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrbljwLslYI The fun and athleticism you see is awe-inspiring, but I haven't seen a single Asian person competing or even at the event. My guess is a m…

We should not, because race is a useless concept. There are traits individuals can have, some of which are immutable, and some of which correlate with what we call "race". But race itself is, even taking the most benign meaning possible, at best a surrogate. The sooner we get rid of that awful meme the better.

Isn't it true though that you can tell someone's race by their genome, skeletal structure, and other physical traits apart from skin color? Additionally, is it not also the case that race is generally agreed to result from geographic isolation, and that if that persisted long enough, speciation might occur?

Not stating this is reality. I'm genuinely curious what the science is on this.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#205

Post by sweezyjeezy »

Is it reasonable to assume that an African American with SAT score in the top band(s) would probably get accepted to a better college than Michigan? There are loads of kids here with pretty low scores, so clearly this is not representative of the highest performing students in the US, nor that the race breakdowns are representative of the highest performing students in each race.

This only seems to give us information about the admittance criteria of Michigan. Without understanding the distributions of other institutions (especially the more competitive ones), it seems hard to draw stronger conclusions.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#206

Post by tester756 »

prottog wrote: post #117
davidn20 wrote: post #29

I think as a society we need to admit different race, in general, have different culture, values, and strengths. I don't even think that's a radical idea, but somehow it is. I have been watching this football competition youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrbljwLslYI The fun and athleticism you see is awe-inspiring, but I haven't seen a single Asian person competing or even at the event. My guess is a m…

Exactly. I've made this point before in this forum, but there's no reason at all to believe that the distribution of interests, values, and strengths between different ethnic and cultural groups should be identical. The classical liberal idea that "all men are created equal" is a beautiful one, and should not be perverted to mean that everyone is literally equal to each other in every respect.

I think the point is that

are those differences just because of race

or they are made because of external factors due to race?

For example:

You're successful because of X race

or

You're successful because you were treated differently than if you had Y race

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#207

Post by hotpotamus »

sokoloff wrote: post #189
hotpotamus wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the model you're talking about is a Kibbutz, though I don't think they were state run.

If it's not state-run (or otherwise mandated), I think you'll still see significantly unequal access to friends (and family members) of different attitudes and aptitudes.

The really interesting thing about Kibbutzes is that they're radically communal - to the point where children are not supposed to belong to any individual, but to the community.

I'm sure it's impossible to factor out the human element of relationships, but it is interesting to me as an example of the spectrum that human societies will build.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#208

Post by nova22033 »

someguydave wrote: post #116
faeriechangling wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The SATs, particularly the mathematics score, is very much a reflection of your parents' willingness to push you academically. Is there any way to prove/disprove this? Also doesn’t this also beg the question as to why non-Asian parents apparently won’t teach their kids to be good academics?

Yes there is a way, you put kids in test prep and see if they do better. They generally do not improve much. The SAT is an IQ test, and IQ is mostly inherited from your parents.

Yes there is a way, you put kids in test prep and see if they do better.

For this to be a real test, you'll need parents of twins willing to send only one kid to test prep..and not send the other one..you know..for science. Doubt there is a parent who would do that.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#209

Post by lapcat »

BeetleB wrote: post #192
faeriechangling wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The SATs, particularly the mathematics score, is very much a reflection of your parents' willingness to push you academically. Is there any way to prove/disprove this? Also doesn’t this also beg the question as to why non-Asian parents apparently won’t teach their kids to be good academics?

> Also doesn’t this also beg the question as to why non-Asian parents apparently won’t teach their kids to be good academics? Because they don't value their kids being good at academics. I've lived in multiple countries. In the non-US ones, people don't brag about being bad at math (even when they are bad at it). As an adult, if you couldn't add/subtract/multiply two large numbers on paper without a calculator, that…

> Because they don't value their kids being good at academics.

Yes, my memory of high school is that everyone including the adults celebrated sports, and hardly anyone gave a crap about the high academic achievers, who were often social outcasts.

I spent a lot of my childhood trying (though largely failing) to pretend that I was not so smart. I can't speak for other countries, but anti-intellectualism is widespread in the US.

Re: SAT score distributions in Michigan

#210

Post by thwayunion »

sweezyjeezy wrote: post #205

Is it reasonable to assume that an African American with SAT score in the top band(s) would probably get accepted to a better college than Michigan? There are loads of kids here with pretty low scores, so clearly this is not representative of the highest performing students in the US, nor that the race breakdowns are representative of the highest performing students in each race. This only seems to give us informatio…

For CS, getting into Michigan is incredibly competitive. They are tied (at #11) with places like CIT in CS and way above a lot of ivies and elite technical schools.

Michigan CS is like Carnegie Mellon CS -- getting into the school for non-CS is waaay easier than getting into the school with the intention to major in CS, and the filter starts at admissions. Michigan is closer to an ivy than a "state school" for CS.

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