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DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

science.org

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Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#61

Post by faeriechangling »

kadabra9 wrote: post #43

I can’t think of many better examples of “The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions” than the DEI cult.

I just wish they would stop talking about fighting systemic racism while literally being the greatest institution of systemic racism in the world. I can kind of see where they’re coming from and the benefits they have in some ways, but it’s incredible the same people who enforce racial quotas for a living give condescending seminars on how to be anti racist which people are mandated to sit though and be educated on.

When the DEI people say “hey hire out of this HBCU, not out of this elite college with tons of legacy admissions which there is almost no pathway to from a school in a poor neighbourhood” that’s not all evil and terror.

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#62

Post by [deleted] »

faeriechangling wrote: post #57
javajosh wrote: post #51

I am astonished. I thought we had this conversation 30 years ago, and the consensus was affirmative action of this sort is a terrible idea. It is particularly bad for minorities, since ALL of them will be suspected of having their position/funding/etc because of their identity instead of merit, even if they are legitimately qualified. Talent capable of pushing the boundaries of science is extremely scarce in humans,…

I don’t know about you, but I’d rather have a job and have people talk shit about me being a diversity hire, then not have a job and people just talk shit for a different reason.

[deleted]

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#64

Post by faeriechangling »

kadabra9 wrote: post #43

I can’t think of many better examples of “The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions” than the DEI cult.

I just wish they would stop talking about fighting systemic racism while literally being the greatest institution of systemic racism in the world. I can kind of see where they’re coming from and the benefits they have in some ways, but it’s incredible the same people who enforce racial quotas for a living give condescending seminars on how to be anti-racist.

I think there is some social good in equity at any cost just so society doesn’t devolve into race riots because of rightfully pissed off people whose families never got a fair shot to ever do things like grow generational wealth.

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#65

Post by JetAlone »

JetAlone wrote: post #6
throwawaysleep wrote: post #2

You also seem to just self declare on most applications, so claim whatever race/gender/sexuality you want. I am gay. Prove me wrong.

Careful what you wish for, the commissars might catch up to you one day and bring out the gimp.

I joke but it's serious, governments or other offices wanting into your bedroom to verify if you qualify as regards occupational opportunities/requirements to prove it is a thing historically. Literally, give them enough rope and they'll try pushing it.

https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2013/08/exemption-gay-m...

" If the psychological diagnosis confirms the individual’s homosexuality, an official, permanent exemption is issued for him. More often than not, a thorough rectal exam follows the mental evaluation. The physician’s observations providing proof of occurred same-sex intercourse is then written formally and submitted to the military. In some cases, further detail-oriented exams come into play, so the decision-makers can be certain of the applicant’s “queerness," making sure they are genuine, not a false pretense to escape the service. "

It's honestly a disgusting overreach whether you're trying to include or exclude people of whatever sexual proclivity. We can become like Iran, but for any ideology, given enough time and institutionalized dogmatism.

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#66

Post by pseudo0 »

googlryas wrote: post #52
fny wrote: post #11

This is backwards. We need do this type of investment at the pre-K, elementary, and middle school levels. We need to provide funding to local communities. If all these top tier colleges (I'm looking at squarely my alma mater--Duke--as an example) invested directly in their local communities instead of affirmative action we'd have made far more progress as a nation. Meanwhile, big tech is gentrifying Durham, people of…

Does anyone have a strong rebuttal against DEI issues being a "pipeline problem" in tech? I remember about 5 years ago, Facebook issued a report about its diversity numbers, and it put partial blame on the pipeline problem, saying they basically couldn't hire enough qualified people of certain demographics, and the entire DEI community blew up with how incorrect that was. I specifically remember some ridiculous outra…

It is a pipeline problem, but there are very strong social and political vested interests that really don't want to admit it. The whole DEI industry leeches off productive companies by setting impossible standards of 50% female software engineers or perfect racial representation. If we admit that this is unrealistic, many DEI departments will no longer have a reason to exist. To tweak the popular Upton Sinclair quote, it's difficult to get an industry to admit that a problem is solved, when their salary depends on not solving it.

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#67

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

n0tth3dro1ds wrote: post #44
fny wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no issue with racial composition. I have no issue with Apple hiring the best technologist independent of race. To me, gentrification is a symptom that the people being "displaced" did not have * equal opportunity* to become the best technologists. This is because funding for upstream programs are ignored in these discussions about student loans, affirmative action, and now DOE grants. K-12 public schools and l…

Ultimately a job at Apple is the pinnacle for most engineers. You aren’t doing anyone any favors by kicking this racial bias / affirmative action anywhere else down the chain, or onto a different ladder, whether it be in tech, physics, education, research, sports, or whatever. Equal standards for every one. Every adult, child, race, and creed. Every ladder at every rung. Not all outcomes will be equal and any sort of…

How is making sure kids are well educated everywhere "affirmative action"? Surely everyone has the right to a good basic education regardless of where they come from?

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#68

Post by hattmall »

ajross wrote: post #55
throwawaysleep wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I deny that it should matter for grants, hiring, and other career benefits. But it does and while it does, I shall claim I am gay.

That's what you said the first time, and I get the irony. I'm just struck that you're taking such care in your phrasing to clarify to the folks here how you're not actually gay. That doesn't seem to you to cut against your point? You think your identity is important enough not to be ambiguous about it[1], but not important enough to maybe be worth checking to see if people are being fair about it? (Which at the end o…

I don't think they care about what people think with regard to their sexuality on an anonymous website. The point is you can't hand check diversity when it applies to a matter of personal preference. That makes any forced diversity of that preference pointless.

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#69

Post by _8j50 »

fny wrote: post #11

This is backwards. We need do this type of investment at the pre-K, elementary, and middle school levels. We need to provide funding to local communities. If all these top tier colleges (I'm looking at squarely my alma mater--Duke--as an example) invested directly in their local communities instead of affirmative action we'd have made far more progress as a nation. Meanwhile, big tech is gentrifying Durham, people of…

There are two problems, the first is acheiving a good meritocratic system and to that end I agree with your sentiment.

The second problem is intentional and unintentional prejudice and biases people have, there is no way around combating that actively. I don't mean giving someone an upper hand because of their color but focusing on schools and companies that admit and hire applicants in a way that deviates from meritocracy. What prevents someone from thinking "asians are smart" or the unconsciously think "asian CEOs aren't a thing"? (Just an example.)

There will always be a need to enforce meritocracy, use whateber name you like. If all this affirmatice action b.s. is to end the you better also support very agressive meritocracy enforcement and paying taxes to support communities you don't live in that were affected by historical racism and prejudice. If you live in a nice suburb and you don't want to pay taxes for inner city schools, parks,etc... (or rural) then you don't get to complain about bullshit affirmative action. Something gotta give.

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#70

Post by dymk »

faeriechangling wrote: post #57
javajosh wrote: post #51

I am astonished. I thought we had this conversation 30 years ago, and the consensus was affirmative action of this sort is a terrible idea. It is particularly bad for minorities, since ALL of them will be suspected of having their position/funding/etc because of their identity instead of merit, even if they are legitimately qualified. Talent capable of pushing the boundaries of science is extremely scarce in humans,…

I don’t know about you, but I’d rather have a job and have people talk shit about me being a diversity hire, then not have a job and people just talk shit for a different reason.

If you’re a capable software engineer, you don’t need dark skin or the right genitals to get a job.
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