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DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

science.org

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Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#51

Post by javajosh »

I am astonished. I thought we had this conversation 30 years ago, and the consensus was affirmative action of this sort is a terrible idea. It is particularly bad for minorities, since ALL of them will be suspected of having their position/funding/etc because of their identity instead of merit, even if they are legitimately qualified.

Talent capable of pushing the boundaries of science is extremely scarce in humans, and it makes no sense to make it artificially scarcer.

It's funny, I almost ended there but realized: I didn't even make the point that it demeans the work itself, and the people who actually can do it. And that's tantamount to acknowledging non-minority people's rights, and that is socially very dangerous thing to do right now.

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#52

Post by googlryas »

fny wrote: post #11

This is backwards. We need do this type of investment at the pre-K, elementary, and middle school levels. We need to provide funding to local communities. If all these top tier colleges (I'm looking at squarely my alma mater--Duke--as an example) invested directly in their local communities instead of affirmative action we'd have made far more progress as a nation. Meanwhile, big tech is gentrifying Durham, people of…

Does anyone have a strong rebuttal against DEI issues being a "pipeline problem" in tech?

I remember about 5 years ago, Facebook issued a report about its diversity numbers, and it put partial blame on the pipeline problem, saying they basically couldn't hire enough qualified people of certain demographics, and the entire DEI community blew up with how incorrect that was. I specifically remember some ridiculous outrage over "How can you compare people to oil?!"

However, I've never really found any compelling arguments that the entire situation isn't a pipeline problem, and my own anecdotal experience is that there is definitely something amiss in the pipeline - in my "Intro to Programming" middle school class in the mid 90s, purely elective(you just check a box on a mail in form over the summer), the students were 24 white boys and 1 white girl, despite the school being 50/50 by sex, ~20% black and 15% latino.

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#53

Post by throwawaysleep »

collegeburner wrote: post #21
throwawaysleep wrote: post #2

You also seem to just self declare on most applications, so claim whatever race/gender/sexuality you want. I am gay. Prove me wrong.

among my generation this has already caught on among some groups of young white women for "diversity clout" if that's a thing. they are all suddenly "bi" and put pride flags in their insta and tiktok bios. prove them wrong. p.s. there are doubtless plenty who are fr but there's a lot of bs too.

Seems like a no brainer. Only benefits, no downside.

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#54

Post by JetAlone »

kadabra9 wrote: post #43

I can’t think of many better examples of “The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions” than the DEI cult.

Yeah. Power corrupts. Some noble intentions got twisted into a quest for revenge. Wake me up when humanity at large becomes better than this (they won't).

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#55

Post by ajross »

throwawaysleep wrote: post #49
ajross wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am gay. Prove me wrong. The weird thing about this is that you're relying on a clear sense of your own identity (that you are not gay, because if you were you wouldn't challenge someone to prove you wrong, you'd just say it) to deny the value of other people doing the same thing, but with a different answer. To wit: you're yelling about your own sexuality in an argument about how we shouldn't have to hear about s…

I deny that it should matter for grants, hiring, and other career benefits. But it does and while it does, I shall claim I am gay.

That's what you said the first time, and I get the irony. I'm just struck that you're taking such care in your phrasing to clarify to the folks here how you're not actually gay. That doesn't seem to you to cut against your point? You think your identity is important enough not to be ambiguous about it[1], but not important enough to maybe be worth checking to see if people are being fair about it? (Which at the end of the day is all this policy means.)

[1] I mean, why not just say "I'm gay, and I this helps me even though it shouldn't"? It's because you don't want people to think you're actually gay, right? I find that really interesting.

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#56

Post by faeriechangling »

fny wrote: post #11

This is backwards. We need do this type of investment at the pre-K, elementary, and middle school levels. We need to provide funding to local communities. If all these top tier colleges (I'm looking at squarely my alma mater--Duke--as an example) invested directly in their local communities instead of affirmative action we'd have made far more progress as a nation. Meanwhile, big tech is gentrifying Durham, people of…

So big tech is disproportionately screwing over black people in Durham, but it would be terrible and hypocritical to make it easier for a few black people in Durham to get a piece of the pie?

I can’t help but notice that this is a bit self serving.

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#57

Post by faeriechangling »

javajosh wrote: post #51

I am astonished. I thought we had this conversation 30 years ago, and the consensus was affirmative action of this sort is a terrible idea. It is particularly bad for minorities, since ALL of them will be suspected of having their position/funding/etc because of their identity instead of merit, even if they are legitimately qualified. Talent capable of pushing the boundaries of science is extremely scarce in humans,…

I don’t know about you, but I’d rather have a job and have people talk shit about me being a diversity hire, then not have a job and people just talk shit for a different reason.

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#58

Post by davrosthedalek »

googlryas wrote: post #52
fny wrote: post #11

This is backwards. We need do this type of investment at the pre-K, elementary, and middle school levels. We need to provide funding to local communities. If all these top tier colleges (I'm looking at squarely my alma mater--Duke--as an example) invested directly in their local communities instead of affirmative action we'd have made far more progress as a nation. Meanwhile, big tech is gentrifying Durham, people of…

Does anyone have a strong rebuttal against DEI issues being a "pipeline problem" in tech? I remember about 5 years ago, Facebook issued a report about its diversity numbers, and it put partial blame on the pipeline problem, saying they basically couldn't hire enough qualified people of certain demographics, and the entire DEI community blew up with how incorrect that was. I specifically remember some ridiculous outra…

The pipeline is leaky, with different leak rates for different groups. But it is leaky over the whole length. This tries to get people to think about the leaks in the second half. This doesn't invalidate that we also should fix the other leaks, but the existence of leaks not addressed doesn't invalidate this attempt either.

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#59

Post by threatofrain »

treeman79 wrote: post #50
ohCh6zos wrote: post #41

I suspect white men see these things and this is why people like Trump keep winning.

Nice of you to notice that Trump is not a bigot. Unlike the other side. An ass. Yes. But he did more for lifting up all ethnic groups then any government mandated racism / sexism has ever done.

No, Trump brought a lot of heat on Asians who have no real allies among Democrats or Republicans.

Re: DOE requires plans to promote diversity from grant applicants

#60

Post by kadabra9 »

googlryas wrote: post #52
fny wrote: post #11

This is backwards. We need do this type of investment at the pre-K, elementary, and middle school levels. We need to provide funding to local communities. If all these top tier colleges (I'm looking at squarely my alma mater--Duke--as an example) invested directly in their local communities instead of affirmative action we'd have made far more progress as a nation. Meanwhile, big tech is gentrifying Durham, people of…

Does anyone have a strong rebuttal against DEI issues being a "pipeline problem" in tech? I remember about 5 years ago, Facebook issued a report about its diversity numbers, and it put partial blame on the pipeline problem, saying they basically couldn't hire enough qualified people of certain demographics, and the entire DEI community blew up with how incorrect that was. I specifically remember some ridiculous outra…

The DEI community is basically a cult at this point. Anything that goes against their dogma or preferred narrative is blasphemy.

Pointing to the (fairly obvious) impact of the pipeline issues goes against their dogma and the grift that goes with it.

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