EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024 • Hacker News Board

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#771

Post by crote » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 5:21 PM UTC

mgraczyk wrote: post #757

TheYumasi wrote: post #555

As an EU citizen, I am really happy with this decision. I am an iPhone user, but having an iPhone is not ubiquitous here, almost all of my friends/special other, use an Android phone with USB-C. Most of their laptops, Mac or not, use or allow USB-C for charging. This as been the case for a few years now, yet, if I go somewhere for more than a full day and forget my lighting cable, my phone will become a useless paper…

Serious question, why is is it a problem to put a tiny cable in a landfill? The amount they leach is essentially zero. The EU would have done more for the environment by spending $20k cleaning up an extra few car batteries. This is so obviously pandering and protectionism and it's surprising to me people believe the "e-waste" justification. Seriously, is there an accounting of the environmental damage caused by cell…

The problem is that it is a lot of tiny cables, and a lot of chargers with them.

Additionally, it also protects the consumer by preventing companies from locking consumers into buying device-specific chargers at greatly inflated prices. It might even become common for devices to come without chargers: why have 10 chargers lying around when all your devices use the same charging connector?

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#772

Post by pembrook » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 5:21 PM UTC

Deukhoofd wrote: post #305

Night_Thastus wrote: post #279

I have no sympathy or love for Apple, but this seems wrong. Technology comes and goes, standards evolve and fall away as new ones arrive. I don't think the law has any place in deciding who uses what connector in this fashion. They can make an e-waste argument all they want, but it's nonsense. All it does is stifle future work on connectors and devices in general.

The law just makes it so that a single industry standard must be followed. Changing this standard is fairly easy, it just requires the European Commission to amend it. This means that if there's a better connector, USB-IF (being made up out of most of the people actually designing the hardware using it) can just release a new standard and get it approved. Edit: It's actually the Commission, not parliament that's allo…

> Changing this standard is fairly easy, it just requires the European Commission to amend it.

Is this sentence intended to be sarcastic? I can imagine nothing more draconian and backwards than having to lobby a political organization for permission to do something innovative and outside the norm.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#773

Post by enriquec » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 5:22 PM UTC

woliveirajr wrote: post #522

_trackno5 wrote: post #49

Why do people think it is a good thing to have this enforced by law is beyond me. I don't see any win besides a minor convenience. A lightning cable weighs almost nothing and it's not a big deal to have one around. As to lightning port limitations, I question whether usb-c will give average iPhone users any other advantage other than charging their phone. What are people gonna do with it other than charge their phone…

Imagine a World where your appliances just work in some sockets and not in others. Where the tires of your car can just be bought from one supplier because it was limited by the car manufacturer. Your toaster just accepts some kind of bread. Your pencil can't be sharpned except with one specific equipament. Your mechanical pencil can use just one kind of pencil lead because it has some specific size. And now imagine…

and literally none of that has happened with no mandates. What a dumb argument. Now the government (that creates no value) now gets credit for "preventing" fictional "horrors" like proprietary bread? statists guna state. seems like some of europe just looooves being told what to do like children

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#774

Post by mgraczyk » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 5:24 PM UTC

crote wrote: post #771

mgraczyk wrote: post #757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, why is is it a problem to put a tiny cable in a landfill? The amount they leach is essentially zero. The EU would have done more for the environment by spending $20k cleaning up an extra few car batteries. This is so obviously pandering and protectionism and it's surprising to me people believe the "e-waste" justification. Seriously, is there an accounting of the environmental damage caused by cell…

The problem is that it is a lot of tiny cables, and a lot of chargers with them. Additionally, it also protects the consumer by preventing companies from locking consumers into buying device-specific chargers at greatly inflated prices. It might even become common for devices to come without chargers: why have 10 chargers lying around when all your devices use the same charging connector?

But no, this is not true. The iphone charger is already USB. I use them with my Android phone all the time, and iphone users charge with my pixel charger. Those already interoperate.

I understand the e-waste and consumer protection argument for the charger (power converter), but why the cable?

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#775

Post by tommoor » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 5:24 PM UTC

LeetHacks wrote: post #249

tommoor wrote: post #224

This is great in the short term, but does the law covers what happens when a superior format is invented in a few years. Are we stuck legislated to the old plug?

No, the law allows for technological innovation if the usb group proposes a new connector, or if the industry wants to move to another connector. It will require some lobbying though, but the big tech companies are well skilled in that.

Seems like a reasonable compromise

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#776

Post by enriquec » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 5:25 PM UTC

JacobiX wrote: post #665

inkyoto wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you old enough to remember the early 2000s when every […] One does not have to be that old enough. Look no further than personal care and small home appliances (electric shavers – yes, Braun, I am looking at you; electric toothbrushes – and you, too, Philips! As well as household and kitchen appliances) the vast majority of which still come with incompatible proprietary chargers that are so hard, expensive or i…

It would be nice if those same EU regulations where applied to all industries and not some specifically designated ones. For example my German Braun Shaver Charger will not be impacted by this regulation ...

the total idiocy of adopting usb-c for a shaver charger... what a waste that would be.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#777

Post by roamerz » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 5:28 PM UTC

rswail wrote: post #549

roamerz wrote: post #508

EU knows best. Just look how well making everyone click to accept cookies worked out. And “empower consumers to make more sustainable choices“. typical gov speak. If I was Apple I’d build in a lightning to usb-c adapter to the bottom and add a chin to the phone that resembled the older Pixels and engrave on it EU mandated.

The GDPR is an unalloyed good for consumer protection. The fact that stupid website designers and even stupider web marketers want to collect useless information to the point that they have to have complicated cookie acceptance banners is not the EU's fault. The GDPR forces system designers to actually work out how to deal with their customers saying "forget about me" and the regulations have the force of law and fin…

It actually is the EU’s fault as before the law I didn’t need to click through anything. It’s a clear cause and affect.

Also regardless of what websites say in the notices that I must click through I still manage privacy settings on my side through browser controls.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#778

Post by crote » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 5:29 PM UTC

ruuda wrote: post #666

ddoolin wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a phone charging port. It's not that serious. It's better for consumers if we all have the same one for everything, if possible. Unless you can tell me why not?

Imagine this happened a few years ago, and the EU had instead demanded micro-USB. Then we would still be flipping plugs twice, and I wouldn't be able to use my laptop charger to charge my phone. It's not clear to me that USB-C is good enough to be the "final" connector, especially with the mess around USB versions, Thunderbolt, Displayport, etc. Unlike e.g. power sockets, where I am pretty confident that the current…

They did mandate micro-usb, actually.

I believe the exact wording was that the industry was required to standardize on a connector, which at the time turned out to be micro-usb. Now the industry is shifting to usb-c, which is objectively better.

The current law already includes provisions to switch to a potential superior connector in the future. If the industry comes up with something better, the EU is not going to demand they stick with usb-c forever.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#779

Post by JustSomeNobody » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 5:29 PM UTC

WithinReason wrote: post #156

Fiahil wrote: post #129

Fast-Forward to Autumn 2023 or Spring 2024 : Tim Cook: (40:20) Now let’s talk about iPhone. iPhone has forever changed the world. Every single day people rely on iPhone, from their most demanding tasks to capturing the moments of their lives, streaming their favorite TV shows, playing their favorite games, staying up to date with the news of the world and connecting with friends and loved ones. Tim Cook: (40:42) This…

I thought it was going to have no ports and only wireless charging

I have been seeing comments like this since the news of the EU law. Does nobody use CarPlay? Most CarPlay systems are wired. I don't see Apple going portless any time soon.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#780

Post by hedgehog » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 5:31 PM UTC

klempner wrote: post #743

hedgehog wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lightning is a better connector for small devices and it's more durable in my experience. USB-C is way better than micro as a connector but you end up with the issue of many kinds of cables that look similar but are not interchangeable. What speed? PD support? Power only? Who knows! Maybe switching to a less durable connector or no connector is fine given that Qi support has gotten pretty good. Most of the Lightning…

There is no such thing as a C to C cable that is "power only" or doesn't support PD, unless it is grossly spec incompliant. The minimal spec C to C cable is USB 2 data and supports power delivery with currents up to 3 amps (i.e. 60 W at 20V 3A) This is enough for most phones, and almost all of the exceptions use proprietary charging that isn't going to work on a C to C cable anyway. The labeling issue of all these ch…

I already have three kinds of C to C cables, some that will work with my laptop+monitor and some that won't, then some power-only ones for random accessories. We can no-true-Scotsman all day but so far type C hasn't simplified my life and as far as I can tell it won't in the near future. iPhones switching for me will just mean throwing out a decade of Lightning cables and buying USB-C cables.