EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024 • Hacker News Board

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#551

Post by mschuster91 » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 3:05 PM UTC

matwood wrote: post #547

mschuster91 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see any win besides a minor convenience. A lightning cable weighs almost nothing and it's not a big deal to have one around. The standardization is good for a lot of purposes: - cutting down on the number of cables and especially chargers. Seriously, it's amazing to have one single Anker 65W power supply and a single cable on vacation and it can charge everything - tablet, work phone, laptop, power bank, dr…

> - cutting down on the number of cables and especially chargers. Seriously, it's amazing to have one single Anker 65W power supply and a single cable on vacation and it can charge everything - tablet, work phone, laptop, power bank, drones, Nintendo Switch. I 'member the dark times where each of these devices had their own cable and for some even own charger. I have this now, except with 1 extra cable (which happens…

> Apple was clearly headed towards usb-c anyway, so I doubt this law changes much in their plans.

Highly doubt it. In any case, the aim of the EU was to create a standard or at least force the industry into coming up with one - and had Apple been allowed to keep their proprietary connector, the competition would be completely correct in claiming "why should we keep using the standard while Apple can get away with MFi licensing income?".

So, in order to actually keep the standard a standard, Apple now has to be openly forced. I doubt this regulation would have been done if Apple had signalled to be moving away from Lightning.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#552

Post by krisoft » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 3:05 PM UTC

jollybean wrote: post #450

cyborgx7 wrote: post #318

Self-regulation only works if government regulation is a serious threat in case self-regulation fails. In this case, self-regulation failed, so government regulation stepped in to force industry to do what is right. All the handwringing about stifling innovation is on its face ridiculous as mandates to use micro-usb didn't stop android phones from adopting the new and better standard as soon as it was viable.

? how did self regulation fail ? There's nothing wrong with the way iPhone charges. This is an unnecessary intervention. There are plenty of bigger, more relevant fish to fry.

> There's nothing wrong with the way iPhone charges.

Well. I'm lugging around one cable which charges all my devices from bike lamps to powerbanks. And there is a totally different cable I'm also lugging around to charge my iphone. Why is that necessary?

Also my iphone charging cable frays all time, while my "everything else charging cable" does not.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#553

Post by piperswe » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 3:05 PM UTC

_trackno5 wrote: post #245

jld89 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A LOT of less waste maybe ? It is very inconvenient and a hassle to have 5 different cables for 5 different devices. It is a waste of space, materials... The economic gains by volume continent wide should not be underestimated.

Do you actually have data on that though? I see that kind of argument get thrown around but it is never substantiated. How will usbc lead to less waste? If you wanna make that argument, wouldn’t it be better to force companies to opt you out of getting chargers and cables unless you explicitly ask for them when you make the purchase?

Apple already does that with chargers, new iPhones no longer come with charging bricks, just the cables. I'd be fine with not including the cables if the phones were USB-C, but since they're Lightning the likelihood of a new iPhone user already having a cable that will work is very low.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#554

Post by orwin » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 3:07 PM UTC

coffeeblack wrote: post #365

Kuinox wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait you think they somehow tried to compete with apple ? That's not how USB works.

If there is no better connector, why should the committee put any effort into developing anything better? Tech history, and human history in general, is littered with examples. Especially in the old Warsaw Pact states.

"Tech history" is littered with example, like micro-usb? Or like MRIs?

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#555

Post by TheYumasi » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 3:07 PM UTC

As an EU citizen, I am really happy with this decision.

I am an iPhone user, but having an iPhone is not ubiquitous here, almost all of my friends/special other, use an Android phone with USB-C. Most of their laptops, Mac or not, use or allow USB-C for charging. This as been the case for a few years now, yet, if I go somewhere for more than a full day and forget my lighting cable, my phone will become a useless paperweight while every non-iPhone user is fine in the meantime because of the wide adoption of USB-C. It is also ironic how Apple markets heavily on how you can take great RAW photos or videos but somehow you have to use lightning USB2 speeds to transfer them. Lightning is barely smaller than USB-C, and clearly my iPhone thickness will not change if it switches to USB-C.

As for the e-waste generated by "having to throw all of those lightning cables", how is it not e-waste that someone buying an iPhone will have yet another lightning cable that will only be used to charge it. If we want to really be more environmentally friendly, wouldn't it make more sense to have no cable at all with the devices we buy, force the sellers to clearly tell the consumers about it and offer the cable on the side only if needed? With that cable being usb-c, the consumer don't have to think about the cable type, for non-tech savvy people, that would be "the regular charging cable" and that's it. I would also add that all lightning cables won't suddenly go to the landfill in 2024. Many people will keep their iPhones/AirPods for a while after that date. Many would probably donate their old lightning cables to whoever needs them. In the meantime, we all already have an ever growing landfill in our homes called the cable drawer, and it is also an issue that needs to be addressed.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#556

Post by yreg » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 3:07 PM UTC

Bilal_io wrote: post #185

WithinReason wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it was going to have no ports and only wireless charging

Unless I can charge it with my body temperature, I don't want anything to do with a device that has no connector.

I like my Apple Watch.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#557

Post by blue_light_man » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 3:07 PM UTC

Perfect example of why Brexit makes sense.

A bunch of politicians thinking they know what is best for consumers across dozens of countries better than the companies operating in the free market.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#558

Post by ericmay » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 3:08 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #426

ericmay wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you're going to accuse Apple of rent seeking here you also pretty much have to accuse anyone who develops their own standard or plugin or similar of rent seeking as well. When will the EU ban HDMI connections to monitors or force Apple to remove them from MacBooks? Why are dSLR cameras allowed to continue to use micro USB and SD cards when they could just use USB-C so we don't have to buy dongles and adapt…

> When will the EU ban HDMI connections to monitors or force Apple to remove them from MacBooks? HDMI is a somewhat-open-ish, widespread standard and for what it's worth Apple MacBook models haven't carried HDMI ports for ages now. > Why are dSLR cameras allowed to continue to use micro USB and SD cards when they could just use USB-C so we don't have to buy dongles and adapters? Again, the market seems to converge to…

> HDMI is a somewhat-open-ish, widespread standard and for what it's worth Apple MacBook models haven't carried HDMI ports for ages now.

These ones do as they were re-implemented per customer demand: https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-14-and-16/specs/

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#559

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 3:09 PM UTC

MichaelZuo wrote: post #525

Fradow wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying there was no mandate is only technically true. The EU gave an ultimatum to phone companies to make a compatible charger "or else", which led to a "Memorandum of Understanding" [1] deciding on Micro-USB. Apple didn't follow that Memorandum, the EU got pissed, so now we reached the "or else" part (it took quite some time considering the Memorandum was more than 10 years ago). [1] https://ec.europa.eu/commission/…

'Memorandums of Understanding' are not binding within the EU, not even between different departments in Brussels. They are, at best, strongly worded suggestions. So this is a significant difference. As a EU mandate implies that organizations can be prosecuted for ignoring it.

[deleted]

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#560

Post by eropple » Tue, Oct 04, 2022, 3:10 PM UTC

moffkalast wrote: post #289

emaro wrote: post #218

I agree with the overall tone in the comments here: yay in general, but what a shame a law needs to specify a specific port for ~iPhones~ devices. I really like USB-C. It's sooo convenient to charge my notebook, my headphones, my phone, my everything with the same cable. However what bothers me since someone pointed it out to me: for phones, which are used all day in all kind of situations, lightning has a big andvan…

Honestly yeah, the standardisation part is fantastic but I absolutely hate that the industry at large settled on USB-C ports that are so pathetically easy to break it's hilarious. Micro-USB and Mini-USB were both far more robust. And also the part where there are a billion specs for the same cable so you never know what you're dealing with. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the bluetooth team came up with the standa…

This is the first claim I've ever heard that Mini-B is "far more robust" than USB-C. Mini-B is legendarily breakable, both from a pin standpoint (really low lifetime insertions) and from a physical one (the port profile put a ton of strain on the device side). Micro-B was created to resolve those problems, and did a decent job through the latching teeth on the back, but has fewer pins available for advanced connectivity and no room to add them in a backwards-compatible way. Even for small devices, the additional pins are beneficial for standardized high-rate charging via USB-PD.

Both Micro-B and USB-C are similarly rated for robustness.