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EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

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Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#61

Post by haunter »

Xophmeister wrote: post #53

I didn't search _that_ hard, but I can't find the text of the EU directive; everything I did find does seem to mention USB-C explicitly. What is the procedure/convention for superseding this directive when something supersedes USB-C? That said, even if the upgrade path is not expressly defined, I think on balance this is still a good thing. In a "best time to plant a tree was yesterday; second best time is today" kin…

Yes it explicitly says "USB Type-C"

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/A-9-2022-0129_...

Hand-held mobile phones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones, headsets, handheld videogame consoles and portable speakers, in so far as they are capable of being recharged via wired charging, shall:

(a) be equipped with the USB Type-C receptacle, as described in the standard EN IEC 62680-1-3:2021 ‘Universal serial bus interfaces for data and power - Part 1-3: Common components - USB Type-CTM Cable and Connector Specification’, which should remain accessible and operational at all times;

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#62

Post by bodge5000 »

Xophmeister wrote: post #53

I didn't search _that_ hard, but I can't find the text of the EU directive; everything I did find does seem to mention USB-C explicitly. What is the procedure/convention for superseding this directive when something supersedes USB-C? That said, even if the upgrade path is not expressly defined, I think on balance this is still a good thing. In a "best time to plant a tree was yesterday; second best time is today" kin…

> What is the procedure/convention for superseding this directive when something supersedes USB-C?

I believe the EU are saying they'll keep up with new standards as they come in. The problem I see is, how can a new standard come in if nobody is allowed to use it. Its a chicken & egg problem, the EU will allow new standards as they're used, but nobody is allowed to use new standards until the EU allows it. Thats aside from the obvious problem that the EU isnt exactly famous for its speed.

The only ways around it I can think of is either if new standards become popular in markets foreign to the EU, or if some company decides to add both USB-C and USB-D to their device, which in a world of needlessly removing the headphone jack I cant see happening.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#63

Post by Nullabillity »

jmull wrote: post #56
skohan wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am similarly of two minds. As an engineer, I can imagine how legal mandates for technology choices could stifle innovation and make the future of technology worse. But at the same time, I think there may be a place for mandating interface compatibility. To give some old-school examples, how differently might industrialization have gone if rail systems weren't mandated to operate under some shared standards? Or wher…

I can “reassure” you: this is unambiguously a bad idea. First, market forces already standardized on two main standards. Second, the interop problem is a $10 cable between wall-wart and device. So the problem solved is a small one. I think this idea got its momentum from years ago when practically every model of phone had a different charger and wall wart. Meanwhile, think about what you lose. Is USB-C really the end…

> First, market forces already standardized on two main standards.

So, one standard too many. Especially when one of those standards is held hostage by one corporation.

> Is USB-C really the end-game of charging connectors?

It's close enough, we can already see that improvements have been incredibly incremental already. Hell, it would have been fine to stick to micro-B or even mini-B.

> What about mag-safe-style connectors?

You already have people building those as third-party dongles. Clearly it doesn't have to be part of the spec.

> Does a phone necessarily need a charging connector at all

Yes. Wireless charging is inherently far less efficient than wired charging.

> and might there not be advantages to not having one?

No. To steal a quote from yourself: this is unambiguously a bad idea.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#65

Post by D13Fd »

bodge5000 wrote: post #51

I'd certainly much rather type-c than lightning or, god forbid, micro usb, but it also has its own issues. Issues that one would hope would be solved by the usb-d, and so on. The problem with this law is that it makes it much more difficult to start using future usb standards. The EU addressed this by saying that they'll keep up with technology as it moves, but one thing that technology is famous for, and the EU is i…

Saying they’ll keep up doesn’t really make sense. The regulation will cause innovation to slow or stop in this area. So there won’t be a whole lot to keep up with.

After all, why invest money in improving your charging connector if you are going to be mandated to use USB-C anyway?

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#66

Post by beardyw »

insickness wrote: post #60
tgv wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank God nobody ever standardized electrical plugs. I'd hate being able to plug my vacuum cleaner and laptop in the same outlet.

The question of whether standards are beneficial and whether the government should mandate standards are two completely separate questions.

Well only governments can mandate standards, and if they don't it's just wishful thinking isn't it?

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#67

Post by thiht »

What happens if a constructor wants to push for full wireless charging?

I didn't read the texts, but wouldn't something like mandating companies to release a version of their products with USB-C better instead of only allowing USB-C? Say for example Apple wants to release iPhone 20 with Lightning, or full wireless, then force them to also release iPhone 20 with USB-C and leave the choice to consumers? Is this allowed by the texts?

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#68

Post by Nullabillity »

salmo wrote: post #58
skohan wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am similarly of two minds. As an engineer, I can imagine how legal mandates for technology choices could stifle innovation and make the future of technology worse. But at the same time, I think there may be a place for mandating interface compatibility. To give some old-school examples, how differently might industrialization have gone if rail systems weren't mandated to operate under some shared standards? Or wher…

I think that’s what weirds me out. In cases like rail, it’s necessary for interoperability and prevents anti competitive practices. There’s a clear state interest there. But swapping a plug doesn’t buy us that. This is evidenced by the fact that no company is forced to use lightning to compete. Almost everything uses USB-A at the outlet and choose your other end. We’re starting to see USB-C at the outlet, but same th…

> I also don’t see the e-waste argument. I haven’t had a cable outlive a device.

My old Nokia Micro-B cables outlived their bundled devices by a factor of… 3x or so? And I only took those out of use because I don't have a lot of stuff that still uses Micro-B.

Actually, I don't think I've ever managed to break a USB cable yet. What on earth are you doing to the things?!

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#69

Post by Kbelicius »

jmull wrote: post #56
skohan wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am similarly of two minds. As an engineer, I can imagine how legal mandates for technology choices could stifle innovation and make the future of technology worse. But at the same time, I think there may be a place for mandating interface compatibility. To give some old-school examples, how differently might industrialization have gone if rail systems weren't mandated to operate under some shared standards? Or wher…

I can “reassure” you: this is unambiguously a bad idea. First, market forces already standardized on two main standards. Second, the interop problem is a $10 cable between wall-wart and device. So the problem solved is a small one. I think this idea got its momentum from years ago when practically every model of phone had a different charger and wall wart. Meanwhile, think about what you lose. Is USB-C really the end…

> First, market forces already standardized on two main standards.

EU sat down the manufacturers and told them that if they don't come to an agreement the EU will make the choice for them. Most of them came to an agreement. So you are right, market forces did make manufacturers to standardize on two main standards. That force is named EU.

> Is USB-C really the end-game of charging connectors?

No, and EU has no illusions that it is.

> Does a phone necessarily need a charging connector at all and might there not be advantages to not having one?

No, and the EU doesn't think that it does.

> As an aside, ewaste will increase in the short term, of course, as people will have to throw out their lighting stuff and buy USB-C stuff. (Don’t worry, it’s not a lot — small problem, remember.)

This is just stupid fearmongering. People won't have to throw their lightning stuff.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#70

Post by webmobdev »

_trackno5 wrote: post #49

Why do people think it is a good thing to have this enforced by law is beyond me. I don't see any win besides a minor convenience. A lightning cable weighs almost nothing and it's not a big deal to have one around. As to lightning port limitations, I question whether usb-c will give average iPhone users any other advantage other than charging their phone. What are people gonna do with it other than charge their phone…

> Why do people think it is a good thing to have this enforced by law is beyond me.

It's because consumers have rights too. Standardising something actually fosters competition (healthy capitalism), increases profit (as standardising something often leads to lower manufacturing costs) while reducing costs for consumers (due to increased competition). It also reduces waste which is good for the environment.

> I don't see any win besides a minor convenience.

You will, when you have to buy another USB-C cable for your iDevice. I recently had to, for an iPad Air, and I was able to buy a good quality replacement USB-C cable (of similar spec) from Samsung for Rs. 750 (around $10) rather than paying Apple an exorbitant Rs. 2000 (around $20+). (Past experience with Apple cables has taught me that the higher price charged by Apple is no guarantee of better quality, and other non-Apple cables from reputed companies are often cheaper, more durable and last longer than Apple's).

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