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EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

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Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#51
I'd certainly much rather type-c than lightning or, god forbid, micro usb, but it also has its own issues. Issues that one would hope would be solved by the usb-d, and so on. The problem with this law is that it makes it much more difficult to start using future usb standards.

The EU addressed this by saying that they'll keep up with technology as it moves, but one thing that technology is famous for, and the EU is infamous for, is the speed at which it moves. 5 years is a blink of an eye in politics, and a lifetime in tech.

Thats not to say we'll never see another USB version, I just worry this will considerably slow things down.

It seems to me the more future-proof way to do this would be to force companies to use an open-standard. We'd still be stuck with the dreaded micro-usb, and possibly lightning if apple let everyone else use it too, but it solves the proprietary issue without locking us in for another ~10 years of just type-c

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#53
I didn't search _that_ hard, but I can't find the text of the EU directive; everything I did find does seem to mention USB-C explicitly. What is the procedure/convention for superseding this directive when something supersedes USB-C?

That said, even if the upgrade path is not expressly defined, I think on balance this is still a good thing. In a "best time to plant a tree was yesterday; second best time is today" kind of way, when it comes to reducing e-waste.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#54

This gives me some cognitive dissonance. On the one hand, having a common connector will reduce waste and be much more convenient (eg "Hey have you got an iPhone charger?") and make losing a charger a cheaper mistake. On the other hand I'm not sure I like the idea of government mandating electrical connectors on devices, which could stifle innovation, or be very shortsighted in the typical government-rules-on-tech wa…

Imagine if every house in the US has different types of outlet shapes and sizes and voltages instead of our standard 120v, 15A 20A 3 prong outlets.

(Minus specialized sockets like 240v, 30A, etc.)

It would be ridiculous to have adapters and specialized plugs for everything for such a basic purpose.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#55
post #34

I like USB-C and would even be in favour of the iPhone using USB-C, but I really dislike the idea that EU regulators would know what's better for consumers than consumer electronics companies and the consumers themselves. I do kind of get it though. It's probably better for a whole host of reasons if electronics all used the same cords, but I guess you could make that argument for a lot of things. There would be bene…

Electronics companies decide what's best for them. Competition in the smart phone market is done, so consumers no longer have a say. These kinds of interoperability standards are great and would love to see more of them internationally.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#56
post #24

This gives me some cognitive dissonance. On the one hand, having a common connector will reduce waste and be much more convenient (eg "Hey have you got an iPhone charger?") and make losing a charger a cheaper mistake. On the other hand I'm not sure I like the idea of government mandating electrical connectors on devices, which could stifle innovation, or be very shortsighted in the typical government-rules-on-tech wa…

I am similarly of two minds. As an engineer, I can imagine how legal mandates for technology choices could stifle innovation and make the future of technology worse. But at the same time, I think there may be a place for mandating interface compatibility. To give some old-school examples, how differently might industrialization have gone if rail systems weren't mandated to operate under some shared standards? Or wher…

I can “reassure” you: this is unambiguously a bad idea.

First, market forces already standardized on two main standards.

Second, the interop problem is a $10 cable between wall-wart and device.

So the problem solved is a small one. I think this idea got its momentum from years ago when practically every model of phone had a different charger and wall wart.

Meanwhile, think about what you lose.

Is USB-C really the end-game of charging connectors? It has existing issues with labeling and capabilities confusion. What about mag-safe-style connectors? Does a phone necessarily need a charging connector at all and might there not be advantages to not having one?

As an aside, ewaste will increase in the short term, of course, as people will have to throw out their lighting stuff and buy USB-C stuff. (Don’t worry, it’s not a lot — small problem, remember.)

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#57
post #56
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am similarly of two minds. As an engineer, I can imagine how legal mandates for technology choices could stifle innovation and make the future of technology worse. But at the same time, I think there may be a place for mandating interface compatibility. To give some old-school examples, how differently might industrialization have gone if rail systems weren't mandated to operate under some shared standards? Or wher…

I can “reassure” you: this is unambiguously a bad idea. First, market forces already standardized on two main standards. Second, the interop problem is a $10 cable between wall-wart and device. So the problem solved is a small one. I think this idea got its momentum from years ago when practically every model of phone had a different charger and wall wart. Meanwhile, think about what you lose. Is USB-C really the end…

But you're assuming this USB-C decision is eternal right? Couldn't the problems you raised be solved by having a standards organization which could monitor and update the status quo over time based on the technologies available?

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#58
post #24

This gives me some cognitive dissonance. On the one hand, having a common connector will reduce waste and be much more convenient (eg "Hey have you got an iPhone charger?") and make losing a charger a cheaper mistake. On the other hand I'm not sure I like the idea of government mandating electrical connectors on devices, which could stifle innovation, or be very shortsighted in the typical government-rules-on-tech wa…

I am similarly of two minds. As an engineer, I can imagine how legal mandates for technology choices could stifle innovation and make the future of technology worse. But at the same time, I think there may be a place for mandating interface compatibility. To give some old-school examples, how differently might industrialization have gone if rail systems weren't mandated to operate under some shared standards? Or wher…

I think that’s what weirds me out. In cases like rail, it’s necessary for interoperability and prevents anti competitive practices. There’s a clear state interest there.

But swapping a plug doesn’t buy us that. This is evidenced by the fact that no company is forced to use lightning to compete.

Almost everything uses USB-A at the outlet and choose your other end. We’re starting to see USB-C at the outlet, but same thing.

I also don’t see the e-waste argument. I haven’t had a cable outlive a device. My kids go through them every other month. No plug fixes that, it’s almost always where the cable joins the plug. (Except micro-USB, we shall never speak of that again).

My other biggest practical problem is that, despite appearances, USB-C != USB-C, and the off-the-shelf cables are awful, especially for normal humans.

In my dream world, I’d love to see clearly labeled device and cord capabilities, and USB-C all the things, and a reigned in USB-C spec.

I just think that government is a bad place to do it, and don’t see a necessary state interest case for their intervention.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#59

This gives me some cognitive dissonance. On the one hand, having a common connector will reduce waste and be much more convenient (eg "Hey have you got an iPhone charger?") and make losing a charger a cheaper mistake. On the other hand I'm not sure I like the idea of government mandating electrical connectors on devices, which could stifle innovation, or be very shortsighted in the typical government-rules-on-tech wa…

The general principle is wait for the dust to settle and then enforce whatever is the industry majority with an agreed mature tech. Btw the same thing happened with the EV charging (SAE J1772).

EV connector is different in EU.

Re: EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

#60
post #19

This gives me some cognitive dissonance. On the one hand, having a common connector will reduce waste and be much more convenient (eg "Hey have you got an iPhone charger?") and make losing a charger a cheaper mistake. On the other hand I'm not sure I like the idea of government mandating electrical connectors on devices, which could stifle innovation, or be very shortsighted in the typical government-rules-on-tech wa…

Thank God nobody ever standardized electrical plugs. I'd hate being able to plug my vacuum cleaner and laptop in the same outlet.

The question of whether standards are beneficial and whether the government should mandate standards are two completely separate questions.
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