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Learning Is Remembering

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Re: Learning Is Remembering

#231

Post by captaincaveman »

p-christ wrote: post #195
fwbex wrote: post #181

I think the software that is promoted here is actually detrimental to "remembering". The core thesis here "Learning is intertwined with memory" was indeed hashed out by psychologists in the 1970 (Craik and Lockhart); It was precisely these two who put forth the "Levels/depth of processing" idea, which emphasized the importance of the encoding process. A more "meaningful" encoding enhances memory. The author not so se…

You review the AIs suggestions which itself is a form of encoding (that is arguably more powerful than the encoding you describe)

Well shouldn't be too difficult to test these hypotheses, if the AI approach is better then actually run a study and show that!

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#232

Post by timvisee »

cloogshicer wrote: post #116

There is a difference between remembering something (like a fact) and a deep understanding of a concept. Let me give you an example in programming: I sometimes have to google for the names of functions I've already used a hundred times. Sometimes extremely simple functions (just a while ago it was list.size() in Java), only because I can't remember the name of the function, but of course I understand the concept - th…

Yes! This is the case for me. I have a hard time remembering exact things, but have very goed understanding of their concepts.

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#233

Post by kardianos »

p-christ wrote: post #164
kardianos wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would point you to two different motivating examples: * Childhood development. A child who has had early childhood adverse experiences mind is effected. A fMRI or chemical detection can see physical differences in the brain. But the brain is plastic (it can change) over time. Works on this subject have been published by Dr. Dan Siegel https://drdansiegel.com/books among others. The key insight here is that academic…

> Writing is important because with it we can overcome our natural memory limitations. Very interesting. Is the theory here that by writing things out on a page we are then able to manipulate the ideas in our head without the usual limits of our working memory? Working memory is still limited but because all the information is so nearby and within view we can quickly put things in and out of our working memory so its…

Yes indeed. You are engaging your visual cortex as retrieval tools and paper for storage. Visual is fast.

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#234

Post by Valakas_ »

necessary wrote: post #69

As someone who has been using Anki for the past 4 years to learn Japanese and now Chinese, I've recently found that the initial "learning" step is not that hard. (i.e., given 辞書, I remember "dictionary") What is hard is keeping the content I've learned, _learned_, for more than a day. So now I'm wondering, is my initial "learning" process wrong? Since definitions are fairly simple and I find them easy to remember at…

I dont understand why some people still go by brute force memorization when there are better methods. Those that our brain naturally uses. You won't see memory champions using Anki for competitions as their main memorization tool that's for sure.

I've studied a few languages, and by far the easiest, fastest and most long-term proof way to memorize words is by free association.

It takes some initial effort to be able to create these associations, but when done, it's done. There are some words I now basically can't forget, because the association is just too strong.

Example:

Waarschuwing = dutch word for warning. With free association i did it like this.

the "waar" part of the word immediately made me think of english word "war"

schu, shoe

wing, wing

So i vividly imagined a flying shoe with a trompet warning about an upcoming war. Done. Unforgettable for me. The more ridiculous, emotional (funny, stupid, ...) and obvious the better.

Some words are easier than others, and the ones that don't have a quick association jump out quickly are at a higher risk of being forgotten, but even then, they will stay way longer and without much less effort than with brute force, which is basically just creating memories out of nowhere, with no associations to anything on your brain. Our brain loves to relate things to others. Unrelated things = useless things. Everything that is useful has a relationship to something else.

So when you try to memorize by a way that is not based on association, indeed, only brute force works, which is a way to tell your brain "welp i can't really tell you what's the usefulness of knowing this, but somehow it keeps coming back into consciousness, so i guess i need to keep it in here somewhere. A self sustaining island, a dot of knowledge with no connection to anything else i know or care about."

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#235

Post by michaelcampbell »

Valakas_ wrote: post #234
necessary wrote: post #69

As someone who has been using Anki for the past 4 years to learn Japanese and now Chinese, I've recently found that the initial "learning" step is not that hard. (i.e., given 辞書, I remember "dictionary") What is hard is keeping the content I've learned, _learned_, for more than a day. So now I'm wondering, is my initial "learning" process wrong? Since definitions are fairly simple and I find them easy to remember at…

I dont understand why some people still go by brute force memorization when there are better methods. Those that our brain naturally uses. You won't see memory champions using Anki for competitions as their main memorization tool that's for sure. I've studied a few languages, and by far the easiest, fastest and most long-term proof way to memorize words is by free association. It takes some initial effort to be able…

> I dont understand why some people still go by brute force memorization when there are better methods. Those that our brain naturally uses. You won't see memory champions using Anki for competitions as their main memorization tool that's for sure.

Thats because Anki isn't for memorization, it's for time optimization and scheduling. Nothing about Anki makes you remember a fact better, that's still on you, and the memory champions use ALL those tricks and techniques.

Anki just schedules the non-memory-champions needing to mostly remember most of the things, and minimize the time taken to try and do that.

Said as a multi-year daily Anki user getting really close to a 1000 day streak.

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#236

Post by Abishek_Muthian »

cloogshicer wrote: post #116

There is a difference between remembering something (like a fact) and a deep understanding of a concept. Let me give you an example in programming: I sometimes have to google for the names of functions I've already used a hundred times. Sometimes extremely simple functions (just a while ago it was list.size() in Java), only because I can't remember the name of the function, but of course I understand the concept - th…

True that there's a large difference between information and knowledge but I think the intrinsic part of knowledge itself is the ability to recall information i.e. remembering.

I started using Anki (A spaced-repetition tool) to improve my long term memory by creating cards for everything I like to remember no matter how trivial it might be, Then the act of reviewing the Anki cards became a chore.

I'm currently trying to solve the problem of reviewing Anki cards by having an always-on review system[1] which lets me review cards when ever I want instead of a rigorous schedule.

[1] https://memoryhammer.com

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#238

Post by peterhung »

I think remembering is not the key to learning. Learning is understanding, in the sense mentioned in cloogschicer's comment + making connections with existing concepts: this is usually called "transfer". Transfer enables us to solve novel problems. Transfer is the real test, and probably the final goal, of learning.

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#239

Post by tighter_wires »

cloogshicer wrote: post #141
p-christ wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Understanding is just knowledge of how or why something works

Intuitively, I don't believe it's that simple. But I'd love to learn more about it.

There may be more to it but at a minimum understanding usually requires you to remember a how or why, so understanding is rooted in memory as well. Perhaps also the memory of a broader cognitive context of the world and how a given objects fit in that context. Without memory there would be no capacity for understanding.

Have you ever gained a solid understanding of a complex topic after a lot of study? When you start to forget the relevant details of the context you’ve created, your understanding fades as well. “Understanding“ is just a complex function of memory to a large degree.

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#240

Post by Hendrikto »

fairity wrote: post #118
Hendrikto wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> learning how to learn This is taught, at least at German schools. It‘s just that nobody pays attention. > learning what matters in the world (and therein how to be happy) This is way too subjective to be part of a curriculum. Trying would border on indoctrination.

> This is taught, at least at German schools. It‘s just that nobody pays attention. Interesting, is the curriculum anywhere online? Curious to take a look. > This is way too subjective to be part of a curriculum. Trying would border on indoctrination. I see it as the opposite of indoctrination. Teaching students how to choose their own values (and how happiness is a function of your values) gives them more freedom no…

Sorry for the late reply, I hope you still see this.

> Interesting, is the curriculum anywhere online? Curious to take a look.

They are, but in German: https://www.mk.niedersachsen.de/startseite/service/rechts_un...

Also, it’s been a while since I went to school. Not sure what changed in the meantime.

> Teaching students how to choose their own values (and how happiness is a function of your values) gives them more freedom not less. You wouldn't want to push any specific value framework, but you do want to teach students that it's possible to choose your own adventure […]

I fully agree with that. I apparently just misunderstood your original comment.

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