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Learning Is Remembering

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61–70 of 241 posts

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#61

I agree with most of whats written here. I think there is a major point you're overlooking here. There is simply just too much information we're expected to know nowadays. You could argue that the amount of information we have to cram into our brains in such a short amount of time makes it very difficult to build good long term memories. High School and university curriculum's are forever expanding jamming more and m…

> There is simply just too much information we're expected to know nowadays. You could argue that the amount of information we have to cram into our brains in such a short amount of time makes it very difficult to build good long term memories.

I would also argue that the time we spend memorizing "facts", of questionable utility, takes away from the time that could be spent on learning better methodologies for thinking.

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#62

I experienced this myself when I was a kid. I wanted to do mental arithmetic like my dad but I couldn't do multiplications for large numbers even after my dad explained how he did it. Turns out I had to memorize the time tables first, otherwise I would run out of swap space. If you want to experience this yourself but you already know the time tables, you could try to memorize log tables and then you can do those fan…

yeah mental arithmetic and running out of swap space is such a relevant / good example of the phenomenon, might add that into the article

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#63
post #34
post #22

The good news is that memory techniques have never been as accessible as they are now. I am fully in agreement with the conclusions drawn in the article, but the bad news is that even with those techniques it can be a slog. Any Anki user will tell you that maintaining dedication and avoiding burn-out is your Achilles' heel, not the limits of your human ability. Understanding something for the first time (in the Feynm…

All it takes then is just move from a method of remembering to another more efficient and enjoyable one, I can illustrate what I am trying to say using your Anki example by saying that once a language learner for example reaches a certain level in the language after acquiring a sized set of vocabulary, the learner can move to "abundant reading" as a way to memorize words through frequency as a more effective method o…

This is definitely true. The snowball effect and the networking of information helps a lot.

I'm trying to look at the problem with a wider lens, however. For example, if learning that language is actually something we want to do in opposition to all the things you could be doing. In the context of public education, since this is the theme the author focuses on, we don't just study certain topics, we study a certain spin on some topics that is determined by a range of government officials.

In other words, you have to deal with severely limited energy and interest compared to all that is available in life so cutting chaff is probably even more important than boosting your ability to remember. In fact, selecting what to learn is life, just like a sculptor removes the parts of the marble that aren't in the end result.

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#64
Learning is as much forgetting as remembering.

When I study something, I go for awhile, but eventually it becomes difficult, confusing, hard to see the forest for the trees. Particularly with technical information and skills like programming (or natural) languages.

When I come back a little bit later, I find that I only remember the things that made sense; my confusions are forgotten, and there is fresh mental space and energy to master a bit more of the terrain before I need another break.

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning is memory, in a sense. More broadly learning the the physical structure that process leaves on your brain. When you truly learn, you do less remembering and more simulating. The process of simulating actions (multi-step addition algorithms in elementary school or wrote memorization of math-facts) is the process that changes the structure of your mind that isn't dependent on "memorization".

that's really interesting, can you explain this bit a bit more? Or let me know what to google to learn more about this? "The process of simulating actions is the process that changes the structure of your mind"

I would point you to two different motivating examples:

* Childhood development. A child who has had early childhood adverse experiences mind is effected. A fMRI or chemical detection can see physical differences in the brain. But the brain is plastic (it can change) over time. Works on this subject have been published by Dr. Dan Siegel https://drdansiegel.com/books among others. The key insight here is that academic learning is not significantly different at a core aspect then behavioral learning.

* Physical sports/martial arts depend on a reaction time much smaller then what is afforded by going through the full frontal cortex. "muscle-memory" isn't real (it isn't "memory" as you think of it). What you have in these cases are "short-circuits" (this implies structural changes) that are able to act before you are consciously aware of what is going on. The same applies to math facts and other fundamentals, you move things away from memory that needs to be retrieved and into reaction. Reading C-syntax for programmers or signing your name is something that has been turned into structure that doesn't need "memory".

I think your initial premise is correct. We have limited memory. How do we overcome that? We write. Writing is important because with it we can overcome our natural memory limitations. You cannot think about complexities (well or clearly) if you cannot write.

The danger of writing is that you can produce something that is both irrational and nearly impenetrable to the casual reader. For example:

> Foucault's use of the concept is descriptive, that is, analytical and explanatory, and at the same time normative and critical: he describes the grip biopolitics have on individuals through technologies of power in a way that makes manifest the repression at work in these biopolitical processes.

The above, taken directly from an "academic" published journal, could be said to have meaning. Unfortunately, each one of these words has an alternate meaning that is not normative to English, making the entire (actual) meaning opaque. "contecpt" "analytical", "explanatory", "normative", "critical", "biopolitics", "individuals", "technologies", "power", "manifest", "repression", "processes" are all defined differently then a standard English dictionary. So even if you can get past the convoluted sentence structure, the intended meaning will still elude you.

But the answer to memory limitations is clear writing using common definitions of words. I bring this up because as you extend your memory beyond what it innately has, the more likely you are to fool yourself (and others) with sophistry.

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#66
Um, there’s like 300(0) years of research on this, and, really, it isn’t anything like this simple. For “recent” science you can start on volume 1 of the jep journal of learning and memory, which is like 50+ years of continuous monthly publication.

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#67
This is the worst possible example.

Learning basic QM is 90% complex differential equations and 10% physical intuition.

There is a reason why you generally don't get to introductory quantum mechanics until second year after (or while) you're doing calculus, differential equations and linear algebra.

To quote a lecture I once saw: the deepest point of any state is a mine shaft somewhere. You don't find that shaft by gradient descent.

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#68
post #41

I agree with most of whats written here. I think there is a major point you're overlooking here. There is simply just too much information we're expected to know nowadays. You could argue that the amount of information we have to cram into our brains in such a short amount of time makes it very difficult to build good long term memories. High School and university curriculum's are forever expanding jamming more and m…

The problem is that if you don't commit information to long-term memory you can't use it reason effectively in other contexts, and you have to add it back to your short-term memory every time you look it up -- so outsourcing your memory to a knowledge bank is limiting the complexity of the tasks you can handle. So there might be more information you're expected to know in modern jobs -- but if you spend a bit more ti…

A key point here is that our brains don't work like computer hard drives. Our brains are a lot closer to how, in biology, a single cell stores the entire DNA "data" that's needed to replicate but just using a few base pairs.

We likely store information more in some type of loose graph structure, where we recall / "remember" something by re-creating links to that piece of information. There seems to be very very little "storage cost" for the billions of pieces of information we keep in our brains.

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#69
As someone who has been using Anki for the past 4 years to learn Japanese and now Chinese, I've recently found that the initial "learning" step is not that hard. (i.e., given 辞書, I remember "dictionary") What is hard is keeping the content I've learned, _learned_, for more than a day.

So now I'm wondering, is my initial "learning" process wrong? Since definitions are fairly simple and I find them easy to remember at first but hard to hold onto. And my process in Anki for New cards is to rep them like reviewed cards until I pass the card; so really, I'm just staring at the kanji + definition until I remember it.

This brings me to my question: is there more Anki can do when it comes to learning new cards? Is there something we can do when learning new information that will help make it "sticky"? Especially in regards to "simple" facts, like basic kanji -> definition mappings, where there are no mechanics to understand, just simple mappings.

Edit (an addition):

Also, I love SRS, but I don't understand how it can be advertised as completely different than rote memorization. When you learn a new physical flashcard, you're learning it the same way as you would be when learning a new Anki card. The only difference is that Anki will show it to you again at a more efficient time in the future, rather than at some regular interval.

Re: Learning Is Remembering

#70
post #54

I have a couple of questions... How do you trust your memory when (as I understand it), every time you recall something your brain changes in ways that can affect recall later? Is there a distinction between learning and knowing? For example, in my undergrad days I learned about Simpson's rule for numerical integration. I jammed enough of it into my memory to pass the test and quickly forgot all the details. Now, 30+…

Firstly, in terms of the distinction between learning and knowing -- the thing that matters most is the strength of the encoding in the brain. If you just memorise something with 0 understanding, the connections in the brain aren't as strong -- so they disappear. Whereas if you know something thoroughly, the connections are much, much stronger. These strong connections are why when you go back and look at it, you rec…

> Firstly, in terms of the distinction between learning and knowing -- the thing that matters most is the strength of the encoding in the brain.

I'd vote for the ability to perform a skilful epistemic analysis of the retrieved information being more useful. I prefer this because it can overcome any natural immutable shortcomings in the underlying process.

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