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Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

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Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#171

Post by HellDunkel »

Maursault wrote: post #165

The Brothers Karamazov and Crime and Punishment effectively read themselves. They can't be put down. Only with exceptional discipline and great difficulty could one "take it slow," and stop for note-taking. I don't know who reads novels like that. Reading them, time stops, and you return to your life about a week later. Notes From Underground isn't easy, but it is short. The Idiot and The Possessed (Demons, The Devil…

Interesting. I tried "The Idiot" once but was put off by Dostojewski until now. Nobody tells you these things.

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#173

Post by michaelsbradley »

kieckerjan wrote: post #21

I met a young and apparently highly intelligent AI researcher the other week who confessed to me that he thought fiction (books but also movies etc) was a waste of his time: there was nothing to be gained there. Being a lover of fiction myself, I huffed and puffed and he challenged me to name him a book that would change his mind. Usually when people ask me where to start in literature, I advise them to start at the…

The Man Who Was Thursday

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1695/1695-h/1695-h.htm

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#174

Post by dotsam »

svat wrote: post #90
dotsam wrote: post #17

> Some deep truths about human nature require instead the reflection provoked by the classics. Yes, read Dostoevsky and the classics. There is so much to learn and to enjoy. But remember that great authors didn't discover deep truths of human nature from books alone, but from their attention to the experiences of real life. “When we read, another person thinks for us: we merely repeat his mental process. In learning…

Similar thought from Albert Einstein (1930): > ”Much reading after a certain age diverts the mind from its creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain too little falls into lazy habits of thinking, just as the man who spends too much time in the theaters is apt to be content with living vicariously instead of living his own life.”

Very strong echo of Schopenhauer here. Einstein was a big fan, and even had Schopenhauer’s portrait on his office wall.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_and_philosophical_...

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#175

Post by Dracophoenix »

killerstorm wrote: post #117
Dracophoenix wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's odd that you regard those 19th/early 20th century authors as overly-emotional. In my experience, these works were much more blunt in their self-examinations of the human condition than the other European and American authors I've read. As for questions: What do you think of Russian-American writers like Ayn Rand and Nabokov? In your view, what philosophical fiction provides a "deeper" and less antiquated underst…

If you're looking to understand today's "Russian soul" and you're good at understanding metaphors, I'd recommend to just read the lyrics of "The Russian Field of Experiments" by Egor Letov, the most famous Russian punk poet: https://lyricstranslate.com/en/russkoe-pole-eksperimentov-ru... (translation #1 seems to be the most accurate although not perfect) Or you can read the lyrics while listening to the song: https:/…

Thank you for the recommendation.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but my general understanding of the song is that every pursuit of ideals in Russia has brought about ruin and unless man butchers his own aspirations, the cycle of pursuit, destruction, and loss is only going to repeat itself.

If so, then that's a very nihilistic assessment on life (albeit an eloquent one) but not a wholly original concept. I guess I was hoping for something a little more novel or profound with a more explicated psychological/epistemic position behind it. Something beyond philosophical pessimism.

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#176

Post by felix318 »

Bakary wrote: post #113
armitron wrote: post #44

Besides Dostoevsky, there is abundant wisdom and deep truths to be found in the classics of Christianity. The apologetics of C.S. Lewis (Screwtape Letters, The Problem with Pain, The Great Divorce), Augustine's Confessions and City of God, Seven Storey Mountain by Thomas Merton and G.K. Chesterton's Everlasting Man. These are seldom read (or known) by young people today and I see that as a tragedy. Western spirituali…

I have delved into the very literature you describe, and it's not simply an issue of 'kids these days'. What all these works have in common is that they are replete with thoughtful insights about human nature, but fail to convincingly present Christianity as the solution. They tend to simply drop it on the reader without explaining the logical leap or why similar but competing belief systems couldn't also play the sa…

I would say if the words of Christ are not enough to convince someone, who else could possibly say it better?

I’ve read lots of Chesterton and CS Lewis, and they didn’t change my perception of Christianity a single bit. What they did though was expose the enormous inconsistencies of the materialistic worldview. It’s not an argument for Christianity as much as a critique of its critics.

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#177

Post by pyuser583 »

pas wrote: post #132
kieckerjan wrote: post #21

I met a young and apparently highly intelligent AI researcher the other week who confessed to me that he thought fiction (books but also movies etc) was a waste of his time: there was nothing to be gained there. Being a lover of fiction myself, I huffed and puffed and he challenged me to name him a book that would change his mind. Usually when people ask me where to start in literature, I advise them to start at the…

There are quite a few recommendations for the classics, but if someone doesn't enjoy the slow burn of those deep books, maybe they should start with something lot more dopaminergic: animes and movies! PsychoPass, Akira, Cowboy Bebop, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Attack on Titan. So, movies. I only saw The Shawshank Redemption a few years ago, and it's really really good. Classic. Human. Touching. I'm not even sure how to…

The Blade Runner that in theaters was terrible.

There were tons of crappy voice overs explaining what was going on. Theological content was removed - the “confession” scene where the robot murdered his creator, the stigmata-style wounds, the dove flying up to heaven. Even the famous “I’ve seen things …” speech was gone.

When home movies became a thing it was re-edited. It became a classic in the “cuts.”

I don’t know if there’s a lesson there. Maybe “don’t worry about re-editing stinkers.”

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#178

Post by pyuser583 »

e12e wrote: post #157
starkd wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a common complaint about literature. I remmeber one person who wouldn't read fiction because they said "it was just all lies". Literature isn't just a recitation of facts, it reflects the organizing principle of our values. It sparks creativity. If the classics feel to archaic or they are too inaccessible, you also might try some contemporary authors. Michael Crichton is very accessible. I think his works can…

> I remmeber one person who wouldn't read fiction because they said "it was just all lies". "Artists use lies to tell the truth. Yes, I created a lie. But because you believed it, you found something true about yourself." - Alan Moore, V for Vendetta

Was that one person Plato?

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#179

Post by pyuser583 »

e12e wrote: post #163
kieckerjan wrote: post #21

I met a young and apparently highly intelligent AI researcher the other week who confessed to me that he thought fiction (books but also movies etc) was a waste of his time: there was nothing to be gained there. Being a lover of fiction myself, I huffed and puffed and he challenged me to name him a book that would change his mind. Usually when people ask me where to start in literature, I advise them to start at the…

Many good tips so far in this thread. If your friend reads a lot of papers, they might be able to "leap" into classics without being bogged down by the language and sometimes dense prose - but I'd still err on the side of accessible for getting someone into reading for pleasure. I'd recommend for example (in no particular order - just some great books imnho): Earthsea quartet by LeGuin Dune by Herbert South of the Bo…

Phillip Dicks short stories can be read again and again. There are plenty of “minor” ones that haven’t been made into movies.

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#180

Post by pyuser583 »

pythko wrote: post #40
kieckerjan wrote: post #21

I met a young and apparently highly intelligent AI researcher the other week who confessed to me that he thought fiction (books but also movies etc) was a waste of his time: there was nothing to be gained there. Being a lover of fiction myself, I huffed and puffed and he challenged me to name him a book that would change his mind. Usually when people ask me where to start in literature, I advise them to start at the…

I'd recommend Stories of Your Life and Others by Ted Chiang [0]. It's often billed as "speculative fiction", and I'd describe it as a series of short stories that define worlds slightly-to-extremely dissimilar to ours, and explores what that means to the people who live in them. I recall the stories being fun because there's some amount of guessing what will come next in the worldbuilding, and imagining what makes se…

I thought you said “define words slightly-to-extremely-dissimilar to ours.”

That sounded interesting. But it was “worlds”, not “words.”

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