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Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

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Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#131

Post by starkd »

dotsam wrote: post #17

> Some deep truths about human nature require instead the reflection provoked by the classics. Yes, read Dostoevsky and the classics. There is so much to learn and to enjoy. But remember that great authors didn't discover deep truths of human nature from books alone, but from their attention to the experiences of real life. “When we read, another person thinks for us: we merely repeat his mental process. In learning…

Neil Postman came to much the same conclusion about modern entertainment.

https://www.amazon.com/Amusing-Ourselves-Death-Discourse-Bus...

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#132

Post by pas »

kieckerjan wrote: post #21

I met a young and apparently highly intelligent AI researcher the other week who confessed to me that he thought fiction (books but also movies etc) was a waste of his time: there was nothing to be gained there. Being a lover of fiction myself, I huffed and puffed and he challenged me to name him a book that would change his mind. Usually when people ask me where to start in literature, I advise them to start at the…

There are quite a few recommendations for the classics, but if someone doesn't enjoy the slow burn of those deep books, maybe they should start with something lot more dopaminergic: animes and movies!

PsychoPass, Akira, Cowboy Bebop, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Attack on Titan.

So, movies. I only saw The Shawshank Redemption a few years ago, and it's really really good. Classic. Human. Touching. I'm not even sure how to characterize it except yes, really go see it, it's really at the top of the power distribution of movies.

12 Angry Men. At this point it's the cliché of old but good movies. At this point it's a satire of a socially interesting movie due to its naivete, yet for someone who seems a bit close minded it might be just the right thing. (Or not? :D)

The Pianist. Again, simple. Brutal. Or the recent Joker.

. . .

But really when it comes to AI and fiction.

Blade Runner. If that's not fiction that's worth investing time into, then what is? Even typing this I've got the chills thinking about Roy Batty.

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#133

Post by starkd »

userlog4051 wrote: post #74
unhammer wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bulgakov's master and Marguerite which is a true masterpiece of beauty and gives a sharp and deep view of what humanity is It's also a very fun book! (Apparantly not all the translations are that good though, but O'Connor and Burgin's https://www.panmacmillan.com/authors/mikhail-bulgakov/the-ma... is.)

I can also recommend the Pevear/Volokhonsky translation of M&M, as well as their translation of The Brothers Karamazov.

P&V translations are beautifully done. The older Constance Garnett translations are good, though a bit archaic sounding now. I read a very bad translation of Master & Margherita, but it was still worthwhile. Go for the P&V is you can.

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#134

Post by alexashka »

kieckerjan wrote: post #21

I met a young and apparently highly intelligent AI researcher the other week who confessed to me that he thought fiction (books but also movies etc) was a waste of his time: there was nothing to be gained there. Being a lover of fiction myself, I huffed and puffed and he challenged me to name him a book that would change his mind. Usually when people ask me where to start in literature, I advise them to start at the…

Right, a waste of his time, today. Not yours or anyone else's.

Doesn't literature teach that it's different strokes for different folks? :)

There is no need for anyone to convert others to their hobby of choice - his challenge was a response to you huffing and puffing, not a genuine request.

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#135

Post by starkd »

kieckerjan wrote: post #21

I met a young and apparently highly intelligent AI researcher the other week who confessed to me that he thought fiction (books but also movies etc) was a waste of his time: there was nothing to be gained there. Being a lover of fiction myself, I huffed and puffed and he challenged me to name him a book that would change his mind. Usually when people ask me where to start in literature, I advise them to start at the…

That's a common complaint about literature. I remmeber one person who wouldn't read fiction because they said "it was just all lies". Literature isn't just a recitation of facts, it reflects the organizing principle of our values. It sparks creativity.

If the classics feel to archaic or they are too inaccessible, you also might try some contemporary authors. Michael Crichton is very accessible. I think his works can be equally inspiring and creative.

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#136

Post by tehchromic »

I binge read Doestoeski at the end of highschool and he remains a major influence on me to this day.

The reason is that, encountering life's most challenging experiences (which are always human in their origin), these novels are like a preset pattern of meditation by which one can find the ground.

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#137

Post by janee »

bckr wrote: post #121
kieckerjan wrote: post #21

I met a young and apparently highly intelligent AI researcher the other week who confessed to me that he thought fiction (books but also movies etc) was a waste of his time: there was nothing to be gained there. Being a lover of fiction myself, I huffed and puffed and he challenged me to name him a book that would change his mind. Usually when people ask me where to start in literature, I advise them to start at the…

This is from someone who is woefully under-read, and only remembered my teenage love of sci-fi in the last couple of years. I thought similarly for several years, that fiction was a waste of time. But then I realized I was scrolling through Twitter every day, and that felt like eating french fries as a meal: lacking substance. Reading long form prose increases your attention span and the shape of your thoughts. Readi…

Haha snap! Will def check out end of eternity. Happy reading :)

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#138

Post by tehchromic »

svat wrote: post #90
dotsam wrote: post #17

> Some deep truths about human nature require instead the reflection provoked by the classics. Yes, read Dostoevsky and the classics. There is so much to learn and to enjoy. But remember that great authors didn't discover deep truths of human nature from books alone, but from their attention to the experiences of real life. “When we read, another person thinks for us: we merely repeat his mental process. In learning…

Similar thought from Albert Einstein (1930): > ”Much reading after a certain age diverts the mind from its creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain too little falls into lazy habits of thinking, just as the man who spends too much time in the theaters is apt to be content with living vicariously instead of living his own life.”

I love this. I always wonder why I have almost no interest in novels now although I spent my entire youth buried in them. Occasionally I feel guilty. But I think life became the novel?

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#139

Post by zazaulola »

I read Crime and Punishment when I was in school. I was sixteen years old. It's hard to appreciate classic works at that age. But we were forced to read these books on a compulsory basis. I didn't find anything revolutionary in this book.

Ten years later I experienced a similar enthusiasm as the author of the post while reading the works of Abraham Maslow. I recommend everyone to read at least the last book written by Maslow. The book is non-fiction, but written in first person.

https://archive.org/details/fartherreachesof00masl/mode/2up

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#140

Post by starkd »

jmartrican wrote: post #60

So he only read 1.5 books of Dostoevsky, and now he telling everyone to read his books. I get it, I also had a religious experience when I read Crime and Punishment, but one cannot assume all his books will be that great without actually reading more of them. Call me back when you get through a few more. Or maybe change the title to "Why read Crime And Punishment".

There are many writers who have only one great book, and the others are all flops. Dosteovsky had a few that were utter flops in the literary sense. (The Idiot did not sell well, although it has its merits). You could even say he only hit his stride when he wrote Brothers.

John Kennedy Toole's "Confederacy of Dunces" was not only brilliantly comedic, but also quit profound. His other works were nothing special.

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