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Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

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Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#161

Post by sifar »

kieckerjan wrote: post #21

I met a young and apparently highly intelligent AI researcher the other week who confessed to me that he thought fiction (books but also movies etc) was a waste of his time: there was nothing to be gained there. Being a lover of fiction myself, I huffed and puffed and he challenged me to name him a book that would change his mind. Usually when people ask me where to start in literature, I advise them to start at the…

It depends on what their interests are. For this person, perhaps something in science fiction. I second Asimov, especially the robot & foundation series. Or may be Dune.

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#162

Post by kuramitropolis »

Bakary wrote: post #115
kuramitropolis wrote: post #100

Do not, I repeat, DO NOT read Dostoevsky. It's full of harmful memes which are very likely to impair your subsequent functioning, and spread out into your surroundings, by way of contaminating your intentional actions with paradox (not the fun kind, either.) I would generally suggest avoiding Russian literature entirely, especially if you're a programmer. Unless you've somehow made yourself basilisk-proof (and note t…

Could you give some examples of these harmful memes you have found in Dostoevsky's works? Although I suppose by definition you might not be willing to do that...

>Although I suppose by definition you might not be willing to do that...

That's not part of the definition. Would have much fewer of the things kicking around if they precluded their own distribution, no?

Thankfully the ones that do are a subset, otherwise basilisk spotting would be a much more introspective activity.

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#163

Post by e12e »

kieckerjan wrote: post #21

I met a young and apparently highly intelligent AI researcher the other week who confessed to me that he thought fiction (books but also movies etc) was a waste of his time: there was nothing to be gained there. Being a lover of fiction myself, I huffed and puffed and he challenged me to name him a book that would change his mind. Usually when people ask me where to start in literature, I advise them to start at the…

Many good tips so far in this thread. If your friend reads a lot of papers, they might be able to "leap" into classics without being bogged down by the language and sometimes dense prose - but I'd still err on the side of accessible for getting someone into reading for pleasure.

I'd recommend for example (in no particular order - just some great books imnho):

Earthsea quartet by LeGuin

Dune by Herbert

South of the Border by Murakami

Islands in the Net by Sterling

Foundation trilogy by Asimov

Speed of Dark, by Moon

Accelerando, by Stross

Murderbot diaries, by Wells

A Fire Upon the Deep, by Vinge (and Rainbow's End by same)

2312, by Robinson

And many more, I'm sure :)

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#164

Post by NateEag »

pas wrote: post #152
NateEag wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the author is referring to the money Taleb made during the 2008 financial crash, rather literally betting against people using mathematics to model complex systems (which collapsed and failed rather badly, much as Taleb predicts). Wikipedia has some links to sources in the summary section: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nassim_Nicholas_Taleb

There's this big trope about how "models don't work", because black swans, etc. (Let's not get into the fact that this claim is itself a model, and his own investment strategy is, of course, based on his model.) But the question is, is this really true? Why isn't Taleb the richest person? (I remember reading somewhere that his strategy of betting against the mainstream underperformed, but he might have made a biiig w…

I haven't read the books, but I believe his argument is not "models don't work," but rather "all models are flawed, and you can't reliably predict the critical flaws. So, don't treat them with blind trust - adapt your strategies to the fact that some of your models will fail without warning and in ways you can't predict."

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#165

Post by Maursault »

The Brothers Karamazov and Crime and Punishment effectively read themselves. They can't be put down. Only with exceptional discipline and great difficulty could one "take it slow," and stop for note-taking. I don't know who reads novels like that. Reading them, time stops, and you return to your life about a week later. Notes From Underground isn't easy, but it is short. The Idiot and The Possessed (Demons, The Devils), if even 100 pages can be completed, are impossible to finish. I am unaware of anyone who has read Dostoyevski's first three novels, The Village of Stepanchikovo, Humilated and Insulted, or The House of the Dead, so the assumption is they are either illegible or inscrutable, the result being they can't be read.

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#166

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

Bakary wrote: post #115
kuramitropolis wrote: post #100

Do not, I repeat, DO NOT read Dostoevsky. It's full of harmful memes which are very likely to impair your subsequent functioning, and spread out into your surroundings, by way of contaminating your intentional actions with paradox (not the fun kind, either.) I would generally suggest avoiding Russian literature entirely, especially if you're a programmer. Unless you've somehow made yourself basilisk-proof (and note t…

Could you give some examples of these harmful memes you have found in Dostoevsky's works? Although I suppose by definition you might not be willing to do that...

I could totally imagine how out of 100000 programmers having read Crime and Punishment, a few would take an axe to their local pawn shop.

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#168

Post by diffxx »

starkd wrote: post #131
dotsam wrote: post #17

> Some deep truths about human nature require instead the reflection provoked by the classics. Yes, read Dostoevsky and the classics. There is so much to learn and to enjoy. But remember that great authors didn't discover deep truths of human nature from books alone, but from their attention to the experiences of real life. “When we read, another person thinks for us: we merely repeat his mental process. In learning…

Neil Postman came to much the same conclusion about modern entertainment. https://www.amazon.com/Amusing-Ourselves-Death-Discourse-Bus...

That's not what I took away from the book. He mentions his own personal enjoyment of trashy television multiple times. His concern was that he believed that democracy is fundamentally incompatible with a media landscape dominated by television (s/televison/social media in 2022).

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#169

Post by grantcas »

kieckerjan wrote: post #21

I met a young and apparently highly intelligent AI researcher the other week who confessed to me that he thought fiction (books but also movies etc) was a waste of his time: there was nothing to be gained there. Being a lover of fiction myself, I huffed and puffed and he challenged me to name him a book that would change his mind. Usually when people ask me where to start in literature, I advise them to start at the…

[dead]

Re: Why read Dostoevsky? A programmer's perspective

#170

Post by HellDunkel »

The person has read 1 and a half Dostojewskis. Fair enough, it takes a while and is quite a churn. Then wrote a blogpost about it. As the person likes to extract use out of everything he/she does, what use did he get? He found some deeper truth. Ok perfect, but where is the news? This is the reason we read novels and classics in the first place. We are not trying to extract how to get back into shape or which stocks to bet on by reading novels.
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