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Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

nytimes.com

151–160 of 220 posts

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#151

Medicine and psychiatry often seem to be at the center of these regimes. Is there sometihng about doctors and ideology that goes so closely together? Maybe it's the pretext the regimes to suspend rules and rationality. German doctors began a "euthenasia" program several years before the war broke out, and no governing body of theirs seems to have historically been above using prisoners for medical experiments. Even r…

I don't feel there is anything "fundamentally wrong with many of them", but the role medicine plays in our lives makes it susceptible to exploitation by both messianic and psychopathic personalities. As a counter-example of medicine going hand-in-hand with despotism, there's Stalin's Doctors Plot, though there was a a lot of antisemitism there as well.

I think you should probably limit it to psychology. The whole point of psychology is social control. Making society into what someone wants it to be instead of what it needs to be (from the perspectives of individuals who are trying to survive/do well, whatever that means to them).

Changing individuals while doing only things to the individual, not touching the problems their behaviour is trying to solve. Pointing out that only a house solves homelessness, there's nothing a therapist can do. And research points out that therapists are destructive rather than helpful as soon as they go further than giving information or providing practical help.

So psychology/criminology/orthopedagogy/sociology is a fraud. The basic promise of these sciences is simple: that they can, through talking and "interventions" change the behaviour of unwilling humans (especially children). Time and time again research shows: they can't. It just doesn't work. They can cause extreme trauma, using some combination of violence, isolation and 24/7 stress, which results in specific behaviour patterns that can be summarised as long-term fear and extreme aggression, which, to put it mildly, isn't a recipe for a successful fulfilling life. Aggression by the psychologists is usually masked, by pretending locking up kids, or forcing isolation up to and including the use of isolation cells, "isn't violence".

Currently, the popular technique is called "applied behaviour analysis". Lock up kids, in isolation (no contact allowed), and cause 24/7 stress. But variants have many names: "New authority". "Non-violent resistance". "Rock and water". All have essentially been exposed as not changing behaviour, "not sticking", and the like. Not that practitioners actually follow these techniques particularly well.

https://elan.school/

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#152

What an incredible thing to do - to steal someone's child and raise it and love it as your own. Why didn't they adopt orphans? Were there none?

Most orphans are damaged goods. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_alcohol_spectrum_disorde... It seems understandable, to not pour yourselve into 15 years of trouble for nothing.

I think you are mixing things here, this [0] is probably more insightful.

0: https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=33004828&goto=item%3Fi...

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#154

This story reminds me of a movie I once saw. I thought it would be a comedy (because of an actor in it) but the movie was extremely sad but I was hooked and needed to see it. I really recommend it. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2431286/

It's a great film to watch aside from the relevancy to this topic.

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#155
post #143
post #128

White Stolen Generation (Australian variant), checking in. My mother was physically, emotionally and pyschologically tortured by her own government for the simple fact of having had me, out of wedlock. I was taken as a baby, to be relocated to another family - a "proper, white one", that met the standards of the government at the time. Mum fought and screamed and kicked down the doors, and got a lawyer. And, a little…

Was this standard practice, or was your case a failure of the system? We have in Switzerland the KESB - children and adults protection they call themselves - which as concept is great but they run totally unsupervised so sometimes situations like the one you lived happen under our eyes. Example? Baby taken away without right to recourse right after birth from mother living on social support, under suspicion she was t…

Basic Catholic practice. Out of wedlock sex is ultra haram.

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#156
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? There are people in South Africa who think things were better under apartheid. Just because some subset of the population harks back to an earlier time, that doesn't mean they have a point.

Just because some subset of the population doesn't have a point, that doesn't mean they should be stopped from saying whatever they want.

Maybe, but that's completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#157

This is not just history, there are numerous reports of mass children abductions happening in Ukraine since the Russian invasion. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/14/ukraine-k...

Russians are really intent on setting the clock back. Fighting in the Donbass, trenches, poorly equipped human waves, genocide through attacks on civilians and kidnapping of children. It's like Putin and co are stuck in WW2 (at best).

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're pointing that implication arrow the wrong way there.

Could you write out the implication arrow you think you're seeing for the people who genuinely don't see anything here beyond what has been spelled out explicitly, like me? (I'm not from the US, I presume I'm missing some context)

The implication is that the USA does it and therefore it doesn't need to have fascists and eugenicists in power and can happen in a democratic country.

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#159

This is not just history, there are numerous reports of mass children abductions happening in Ukraine since the Russian invasion. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/14/ukraine-k...

No post body was provided.

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you write out the implication arrow you think you're seeing for the people who genuinely don't see anything here beyond what has been spelled out explicitly, like me? (I'm not from the US, I presume I'm missing some context)

The implication is that the USA does it and therefore it doesn't need to have fascists and eugenicists in power and can happen in a democratic country.

So I'm not trying to pick a fight (I may very well be agreeing with your views as far as I know), but I'm genuinely still lost at what you mean.

I don't think I see what's wrong with that direction, unless I'm reversing it along a different axis than what you have in mind.

I were to attempt to reverse that statement it would say "this can happen in a democratic country, a country doesn't need to have fascists and eugenicists in power => therefore the USA does it".

I mean I know the USA does this, but stating it can happen in a democratic country therefore it must happen in the USA isn't how causality works I think.

Wait, are you saying the reversed implication is that the USA isn't actually a democracy and or that it is a fascist country?

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