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Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

nytimes.com

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Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#61

Post by aubanel »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #26
motohagiography wrote: post #24

Medicine and psychiatry often seem to be at the center of these regimes. Is there sometihng about doctors and ideology that goes so closely together? Maybe it's the pretext the regimes to suspend rules and rationality. German doctors began a "euthenasia" program several years before the war broke out, and no governing body of theirs seems to have historically been above using prisoners for medical experiments. Even r…

I was going to say the Catholic Church often seems to be at the center of these regimes, but I guess we all see things through our own lens.

Do you have rationale supporting the hand of the Church in fascist regimes? The Catholic Church expressed its rejection of fascism via the strongest possible channel: an encyclic written by Pius XI in 1937, _Mit Brennender Sorge_, was read during the Sunday mass in all churches of Germany although the Nazis were already repressing opponents.

Even more: according to statistical studies, out of many socioeconomic variables, being Catholic had the strongest positive correlation with _not_ voting for the Nazis [1].

[1]: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https:/...

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#62

Post by Schroedingersat »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #52
eyelidlessness wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Openly” is probably going to throw some people off here, because it’s knowable history but not widely broadcasted or widely known. I think (and hope) your intent is to draw the parallel so similar programs targeting natives in the US (and Canada, I’ll add, they seldom diverge very far) can be viewed in the same light. I’m not adding much nuance besides noting that your wording could be misinterpreted as a dismissive…

I was saying these programs don't need to be run by fascist dictators who forged documents far away in the distant past. The democratic US either did or does the same kind of thing without that kind of deception.

You're pointing that implication arrow the wrong way there.

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#63

Post by trhway »

hagibborim wrote: post #39
trhway wrote: post #32

Quoted post unavailable.

Quoted post unavailable.

>This is fake

It is kind of hard to "assume the best" in case of your comment, ie. that you are supposedly just not aware what i'm talking about given that the info is just one google search away. Anyway, given the very familiar style, impeccable logical consistency and convincing strength of that an argument of yours i suppose that you're a Russian and thus can read this for example (i just don't have nor time nor desire to work through very slow Rutube to find the TV reports, and the text article is more useful for non-Russian speaking people here who can use Google Translate on it):

https://www.infox.ru/news/251/270756-rossiane-smogut-usynovl...

(by the March 10 date of the article they already report 1090 children taken away to Russia since beginning of the war on Feb 24, and they also report there about expected law changes to simplify adoption of Ukrainian children into Russia)

By the way, what Russia has been doing here - forceful taking away of children by a nation A from a nation B and bringing those children up in the culture and spirit of the nation A - is a cultural genocide.

>and flamebait.

i guess you are an expert here.

---------------------

This is my original, GP, comment which seems to have been flagged:

These days we have Ukrainian children being massively taken away into Russia. In particular from Mariupol where Russians killed something like 50K civilians. On state TV they even happily report how those children get new Russian families.

As an example of an end result - there was a POW who was taken away in 2014 who was drafted into Russian army and sent to fight in Ukraine.

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#64

Post by Thorrez »

saboot wrote: post #34
wyager wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

The pope may not have been, but several german priests such as Herman Muckermann certainly gave german Catholics a way to support eugenics and race theories.

Some priests did, but overall the Catholic Church was very against eugenics.[1] On the other hand eugenics was quite popular among US intellectuals.[2] Forced sterilization of the mentally disabled is still legal in the US.[3] Herman Muckermann was at one point in favor of forced sterilization, but turned against it when the pope denounced it. Herman Muckermann was also against Nazism and euthanasia.

>In 1933, he left his post at the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute, as he opposed Nazi biological racism and the belief that the Nordic race was superior (Dietrich, 1992).[4]

[1] https://academic.oup.com/jah/article-abstract/103/2/498/1750...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterilization_law_in_the_Unite...

[4] https://eugenicsarchive.ca/discover/tree/5233675d5c2ec500000...

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#66

Post by oilslick »

motohagiography wrote: post #24

Medicine and psychiatry often seem to be at the center of these regimes. Is there sometihng about doctors and ideology that goes so closely together? Maybe it's the pretext the regimes to suspend rules and rationality. German doctors began a "euthenasia" program several years before the war broke out, and no governing body of theirs seems to have historically been above using prisoners for medical experiments. Even r…

No post body was provided.

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#68

Post by [deleted] »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #38
wyager wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I don't think "not as bad as Hitler" is a bar one should be aiming for. I was specifically referring to the Catholic Church's penchant for treating unmarried mothers and poor children like trash. Like in Ireland: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/9-000-children-died-irish... And in Britain and Australia: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/03/catholic-chu... And in Canada: https://www.france24.com/en/americ…

[deleted]

Re: Taken under fascism, Spain’s ‘stolen babies’ are learning the truth

#70

Post by vanderZwan »

Schroedingersat wrote: post #62
boomboomsubban wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was saying these programs don't need to be run by fascist dictators who forged documents far away in the distant past. The democratic US either did or does the same kind of thing without that kind of deception.

You're pointing that implication arrow the wrong way there.

Could you write out the implication arrow you think you're seeing for the people who genuinely don't see anything here beyond what has been spelled out explicitly, like me? (I'm not from the US, I presume I'm missing some context)
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