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Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

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Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#311

Post by whimsicalism »

netsectoday wrote: post #303
whimsicalism wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can say whatever you want, doesn't mean I won't criticize you for it or downvote you. And I'll flag if you violate HN guidelines, which you have.

Cool! Which ones?

> Edit: Holy fuck there are (paid?) Facebook shills all over this like flies on shit.

From the HN guidelines: [0]

> Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data.

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#312

Post by Melatonic »

planb wrote: post #62
rreyes1979 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More so, my wife sent me a picture of my daughter working on a puzzle. Less than 24 hours later, her Instagram was showing ads for a store that was selling the same type of puzzle as the one my daughter was playing with. So it's not just terms but images too.

She probably gave Instagram access to her photo library (not unreasonable for a photo sharing app). That means the Instagram app can scan her latest pictures in the background when it's opened. I think it's more likely that the data was leaked this way.

Instagram is especially malicious with this - it is the only app that REQUIRES access to my microphone for me to post something. They try to do this by having a camera inside instagram (that you can record with which would obviously require mic access) but even to post stuff I have already taken (even just photos) it wants mic access. I usually temporarily give it what it wants, post, then remove again.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#313

Post by renewiltord »

That's nothing. I talked to my wife in bed about sex and then immediately received an email selling viagra and cialis. It's crazy, but I think gmail must have put a microphone in my pillow. It's the only way.

I was sleepy so when I woke up I tore apart the pillow after brushing my teeth but there was nothing there. They must have taken it out surreptitiously when I was in the bathroom.

I know it wasn't my wife because I put her phone in a Faraday cage to stop her from using the Internet when I'm home. Unless... now that I think about it. Unless she's secretly working for Facebook. She said a friend of her's could get her a Portal webcam. No one buys those things unless they're working for Facebook!

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#314

Post by Hamuko »

netsectoday wrote: post #283
Hamuko wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried looking at the screen while using the Facebook app? Also, I feel like the goal posts are moving quite fast in one direction.

Goal posts? Is this a competition? The phone was sitting between two people having a conversation, one of them "swiped it open" meaning it was off to begin with, then was immediately displayed an ad for that conversation, and upon hearing this the tech-savvy person in the house understood what happened, confirmed it with the mic access to facebook in the settings, and then disabled the behavior.

>Goal posts? Is this a competition?

Considering the original claim was "zero indication that the mic is hot" and now it's "zero indication that the mic is hot if the screen is off", I'd say that the goal post has moved considerably.

But if you want to know if Facebook is listening to you through the iPhone microphone, you should probably look at the screen for the indicator. iOS apps can't start recording on their own in the background, there's no API for that. If they are listening to you, they'd have to start the audio session in the foreground, which would allow you to see the indicator.

https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/65604

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/70562929/how-to-start-au...

(Unless you believe that Facebook is using some kind of a private system API for this and is passing through the App Store checks)

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#315

Post by crazygringo »

shmel wrote: post #265
crazygringo wrote: post #249

I'm sorry, but this feels like a highly irresponsible FUD post to me. (And I am not a fan of Facebook in any way at all, so let's put that out of the way.) For years and years and years, there have been people claiming their voice assistant (for example) is listening in on their conversation to show ads, and so forth. And it's always anecdote, never any hard data. And the thing is, if this were the case, it would be…

Are you trying to say that FB was never caught on privacy scandals before? Did it blow their reputation?

Not like this -- stuff like Cambridge Analytica revealed major lapses in security, but none of them ever contradicted their main marketing.

To the contrary, WhatsApp advertising E2EE so publicly can be seen as actively trying to get away from past scandals and building trust.

So the idea that they would be undermining themselves at the same time doesn't make a whole lot of business sense.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#316

Post by procinct »

tonmoy wrote: post #230
procinct wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t iPhone have an indicator when the mic is recording? Also, this feels like it would be insanely easy to test by capturing the payloads sent to FB; you could even use something like Charles Proxy to do it. FB having access to microphone makes sense for plenty of other completely innocent reasons (for example, if you can record a video from inside the app). If this was actually true, I can’t help but feel that som…

The GP didn’t say they were using iPhone. The Facebook app on Android has been known to record audio even when running in the background

> My wife and MIL sitting at the table talking about a unique topic with an iPhone running Facebook sitting in front of them

They explicitly said they were using an iPhone?

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#317

Post by Melatonic »

hapless wrote: post #282
Closi wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In principle yes, in practice no, as this is a statement from the WhatsApp website: > We limit the information we share with Meta in important ways. For example, we will always protect your personal conversations with end-to-end encryption, so that neither WhatsApp nor Meta can see these private messages.

That statement was worded carefully They are saying they dont store or forward your message text, not that your phone doesnt send them topics of interest

Exactly. Zuckerburg cannot directly read your convo but the app itself writing down a few key keywords of interest and sending it back to facebook / whatsapp is not out of the question. And that amount of traffic is so tiny and could be so easily mixed in with everything else.....

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#318

Post by Melatonic »

netsharc wrote: post #53
FreeHugs wrote: post #5

Just because that the messages might be sent end-to-end encrypted from Sue to Joe does not mean Meta cannot read them. Meta has control over the app Sue uses. So they could send them to Meta unencrypted in addition to sending them to Joe in an encrypted fashion. Or they just extract the relevant terms: Sue->Joe: "Hello Joe, I'm so excited! We are going to have a baby! Let's call it Dingbert. You're not the father! Ji…

I have a suspicion as well that this is what they're doing: before the message is encrypted and sent, the app (on your phone) does analysis and picks out keywords relevant for advertising. So they can claim and be technically correct that they are not reading your messages. Although if their algorithm is doing it on your phone, is it... reading? Or they can say, technically it wasn't a message before it was sent. The…

This is definitely the most likely scenario in my opinion

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#319

Post by netsectoday »

whimsicalism wrote: post #311
netsectoday wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool! Which ones?

> Edit: Holy fuck there are (paid?) Facebook shills all over this like flies on shit. From the HN guidelines: [0] > Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#320

Post by Melatonic »

philliphaydon wrote: post #228
brigandish wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you view the apartment with…? - the agent present - you both had smartphones on you - they both had bluetooth data enabled - they are both signed into location services - you'd added the agent to your contacts or they add you to theirs - you took pictures (and didn't strip the EXIF data) - you exchanged emails with the agent via gmail - you rang each other via a VOIP service - you used a map app to find the place…

The agent is a friend so I had in my contact list for years. We exchange listings to apartments to view so absolutely they know I'm looking at apartments and all that stuff. Getting adverts for apartments is fine because I know I searched and browsed sites etc. The issue is for 2 weeks I looked at apartments. Got some adverts for AirBnb, other property sites, etc. The particular apartment I looked at, I viewed it, wa…

What keyboard do you use?

That is always the one that worries me.....

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