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Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

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Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#151
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case folks don’t know this: on an iPhone you do not need to give an app access to all your photos in order to use photos in the app. Under Privacy > Photos, you can set “Selected Photos” instead of “All Photos” on a per-app basis. Then when you go to add a photo to the app, you first go through an iOS prompt to select the photos the app will have access to. Only then do you go through the app’s photo selection dia…

I just did this and the UI is weird and confusing - it looks like I need to statically pick photos in the settings app, which obviously won’t work for day to day use every time I take a photo and want to publish it to instagram. Not saying it doesn’t work like you say, just saying it doesn’t look like it does.

At least for Telegram each time you go to pick a photo to share, it offers you the chance to "add more photos visible" or you can click Manage.

I assume Instagram and friends would do the same.

I often just take the photo via Telegram instead, which automatically adds it to your photo roll and gives Telegram access to it. It works relatively well.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#152

The scarier thing to me is when ads match _conversations_ I have with my wife. I told her about this story this morning, and she reminded me about a conversation about stem cell research we had yesterday. I said something along the lines of 'I hope there is a breakthrough soon on regenerating the Isle of Langerhans in the pancreas to treat diabetes.' Sure enough, she noticed an article in her Google News feed later t…

As creepy as this is whenever it happens, I remain convinced it’s observation bias. Because of how often it doesn’t happen.

Quoth Richard Feynman:

> “You know, the most amazing thing happened to me tonight... I saw a car with the license plate ARW 357. Can you imagine? Of all the millions of license plates in the state, what was the chance that I would see that particular one tonight? Amazing!”

You were gonna see ads, or news stories, or whatever. You happened to see this one. And it happened to connect to a conversation you were having. Amazing! What magic!?

Well how many other ads or other times didnt it connect to a conversation and you just don’t remember because it didn’t feel special? Probably many more times than it did work.

Lately I’ve been trying to find alternate explanations. Hm we were talking about going to a restaurant tomorrow. Why is my girlfriend getting all these restaurant ads on instagram all of a sudden? Oh right, because it’s Thursday, we live in a city, I searched Google for “Good Friday restaurants for a date” during our conversation, and we live on the same IP.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#153
post #18

Whatsapp FAQ: WhatsApp's end-to-end encryption is used when you chat with another person using WhatsApp Messenger. End-to-end encryption ensures only you and the person you're communicating with can read or listen to what is sent, and nobody in between, not even WhatsApp. This is because with end-to-end encryption, your messages are secured with a lock, and only the recipient and you have the special key needed to un…

> End-to-end encryption ensures only you and the person you're communicating with can read or listen to what is sent, and nobody in between, not even WhatsApp. This does not exclude an algorithm running running on the sender/recipient's App from scanning the content and sending suggestions to AD servers.

I thought that too, but if that is the case then it should be relatively easy to find this hidden functionality by decompiling the APK and exploring it.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#154
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe Meta are not as trustworthy as I imagined.

Stop calling them Meta. It‘s Facebook.

Comcast rebranded as Xfinity because they knew everyone hated Comcast. Now everyone also hates Xfinity. It's fine.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#155
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey if you really liked the vacuum cleaner you just bought, you definitely want to buy another one.

Yes, for sure. Now I've got a different vacuum cleaner for every room. Never have I felt cleaner before.

Wait until you find out about whole home vacuums! Then you can turn The Whole House into a vacuum!

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meta own the proprietary code running at either end of the encrypted pipe. Of course they can.

They can decrypt if someone enables backups, so I see no reason they could not read them indeed. Signal might be the only app unable to read, but even that, I would not trust.

How would you propose Signal -- or any app for that matter that provides end to end encryption -- encrypt the messages in the first place if they don't have access to the plaintext at some point?

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#157
My understanding was always that whatsapp controlled/has access to the key, so they can decrypt anything anyway. It wouldn't be surprising that "end to end" means that it includes you, your partner, and whatsapp.

it wouldn't be surprising that whatsapp gleans info from your comms and builds a profile of you, from which ads get injected. whatsapp is not selling your actual comms, but the likelyhood you'd be interested in certain things/products. sort of like how the three names supposedly only store metadata of your calls, not the actual call.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#158

I think you partly may just be biased by happening to notice ads more if they fit the topic you sent to your wife or being lenient in deciding if ads meet the categorization. And if you dwell on an ad because it seems to match, you may get more similar ads. Here is how I think you could design a more robust (but less fun) experiment: - Come up with a bunch of topics, write them down on slips of paper, put the paper i…

This is facebook. They've been caught recording people and selling that for advertising, they deny it because technically your audio is transcripted not recorded and they can send only some keywords back so whole conversations aren't sent back to them.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#159
It is unlikely that Meta is able to decrypt the messages on their side. The WhatsApp desktop client is actually very crippled by the fact that it can’t just ask someone for the messages, it is another participant in end to end encryption and needs the shared keys. If they would defeat end to end encryption they would first implement the desktop client in a more functional and easy way.

But it is possible for the client itself to build a map of advertising id -> interests and send that over to meta separately. This would be similar to one of chrome's proposals.

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