Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 473 posts

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#81

Post by snowwrestler »

planb wrote: post #62
rreyes1979 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More so, my wife sent me a picture of my daughter working on a puzzle. Less than 24 hours later, her Instagram was showing ads for a store that was selling the same type of puzzle as the one my daughter was playing with. So it's not just terms but images too.

She probably gave Instagram access to her photo library (not unreasonable for a photo sharing app). That means the Instagram app can scan her latest pictures in the background when it's opened. I think it's more likely that the data was leaked this way.

In case folks don’t know this: on an iPhone you do not need to give an app access to all your photos in order to use photos in the app.

Under Privacy > Photos, you can set “Selected Photos” instead of “All Photos” on a per-app basis.

Then when you go to add a photo to the app, you first go through an iOS prompt to select the photos the app will have access to. Only then do you go through the app’s photo selection dialogue.

I have all my apps set this way (or “None”).

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#82

Post by andrewinardeer »

spinningslate wrote: post #48
Maro wrote: post #18

Whatsapp FAQ: WhatsApp's end-to-end encryption is used when you chat with another person using WhatsApp Messenger. End-to-end encryption ensures only you and the person you're communicating with can read or listen to what is sent, and nobody in between, not even WhatsApp. This is because with end-to-end encryption, your messages are secured with a lock, and only the recipient and you have the special key needed to un…

> only you and the person you're communicating with can read or listen to what is sent, and nobody in between, not even WhatsApp I guess the key lies in "what is sent" in the above statement. The casual reader might reasonably interpret as "no-one except the intended recipient can see _what I type_". But it doesn't say that. It only covers what gets _sent_. It doesn't say anything about what happens to the content ou…

So lying by ommission?

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#83

Post by viraptor »

bin_bash wrote: post #49
rreyes1979 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, my wife sent me a picture of my daughter working on a puzzle. Less than 24 hours later, her Instagram was showing ads for a store that was selling the same type of puzzle as the one my daughter was playing with. So it's not just terms but images too.

That doesn’t even make sense. Why go through the trouble of retargeting based on images? If you took a photo of something you likely already own it.

Looking through my photos, that's not the case. It's either things I don't own but like, places I enjoyed, or photos of things I want to buy / sent to my wife to buy. In my case, the photos would be a prefect targeting opportunity.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#84

Post by InsomniacL »

spinningslate wrote: post #48
Maro wrote: post #18

Whatsapp FAQ: WhatsApp's end-to-end encryption is used when you chat with another person using WhatsApp Messenger. End-to-end encryption ensures only you and the person you're communicating with can read or listen to what is sent, and nobody in between, not even WhatsApp. This is because with end-to-end encryption, your messages are secured with a lock, and only the recipient and you have the special key needed to un…

> only you and the person you're communicating with can read or listen to what is sent, and nobody in between, not even WhatsApp I guess the key lies in "what is sent" in the above statement. The casual reader might reasonably interpret as "no-one except the intended recipient can see _what I type_". But it doesn't say that. It only covers what gets _sent_. It doesn't say anything about what happens to the content ou…

Even if that interpretation was correct in a broader sense, which I don't believe it is, certainly in this context of e2ee it isn't correct.

The more obvious explanation is that before or after the e2ee (i.e within the app itself), an algorithm scans the content, categorizes it and sends this to Meta/Facebook.

In this scenario, *Nobody* has read the content other than the person you're communicating with.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#85

Post by rhn_mk1 »

viraptor wrote: post #77
rhn_mk1 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just because that the messages might be sent end-to-end encrypted from Sue to Joe does not mean Meta cannot read them. I think it does actually no one except them can read them. If someone else can, then by definition it's not end-to-end encryption. From https://www.definitions.net/definition/End-To-End%20Encrypti... > End-to-end encryption (E2EE) is a system of communication where only the communicating users can…

The conversations being e2ee do not affect the app itself from acting on contents. By definition the app needs to know the contents to display it, but it can also update your ad profile. It doesn't even need to send the whole message to meta, just the keywords triggered, or a preprocessed vector defining your interests. E2ee means only the messages themselves can't be intercepted and read. But if anyone can actually…

The application processing the message for the purpose of displaying it is clear.

But if the message is copied, read, analyzed and sent further on behalf of a third party before encryption, then that puts that third party in the middle between the sender and the recipient. A man in the middle directly undermines e2ee: "no one else reads your message".

It doesn't matter if the third party made the messaging app or not. What matters is whether information in your messages is accessible to anyone besides you and the recipient.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#86

Post by snapcaster »

endofreach wrote: post #71
beardyw wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe Meta are not as trustworthy as I imagined.

Stop calling them Meta. It‘s Facebook.

don't die on this hill, it's all arbitrary and won't make a difference

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#87

Post by lm28469 »

rreyes1979 wrote: post #15
FreeHugs wrote: post #5

Just because that the messages might be sent end-to-end encrypted from Sue to Joe does not mean Meta cannot read them. Meta has control over the app Sue uses. So they could send them to Meta unencrypted in addition to sending them to Joe in an encrypted fashion. Or they just extract the relevant terms: Sue->Joe: "Hello Joe, I'm so excited! We are going to have a baby! Let's call it Dingbert. You're not the father! Ji…

More so, my wife sent me a picture of my daughter working on a puzzle. Less than 24 hours later, her Instagram was showing ads for a store that was selling the same type of puzzle as the one my daughter was playing with. So it's not just terms but images too.

> my wife sent me a picture of my daughter working on a puzzle.

> her Instagram was showing ads for a store that was selling the same type of puzzle

How did she take the pic ?

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#88

Post by paavohtl »

planb wrote: post #62
rreyes1979 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More so, my wife sent me a picture of my daughter working on a puzzle. Less than 24 hours later, her Instagram was showing ads for a store that was selling the same type of puzzle as the one my daughter was playing with. So it's not just terms but images too.

She probably gave Instagram access to her photo library (not unreasonable for a photo sharing app). That means the Instagram app can scan her latest pictures in the background when it's opened. I think it's more likely that the data was leaked this way.

Is this something that actually happens (= can anyone prove this by disassembling the app or MITMing the network traffic), or is it just unfounded paranoia?

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#89

Post by martin_a »

pc86 wrote: post #74
martin_a wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you took a photo of something you likely already own it. Tell that to Amazon who never fail to recommend me things I just bought.

Hey if you really liked the vacuum cleaner you just bought, you definitely want to buy another one.

Yes, for sure. Now I've got a different vacuum cleaner for every room. Never have I felt cleaner before.
Post reply on HN