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Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

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Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#31
post #4

Could it just be confirmation bias? Or could it be that the correlation is the other way around: You see something online, decide to pick that as your topic with your partner (unconciously) and the ads show up because of the initial location you have seen the topic.

While that's possible, the more plausible explanation is Meta reading your messages imo.

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Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#33
post #26

WhatsApp Privacy Policy: How We Work With Other Meta Companies As part of the Meta Companies, WhatsApp receives information from, and shares information (see here) with, the other Meta Companies. We may use the information we receive from them, and they may use the information we share with them, to help operate, provide, improve, understand, customize, support, and market our Services and their offerings, including…

So most likely WhatsApp on your phone includes an engine that reads all your incoming messages and tells Meta that you are interested in some topic X based on your recent messaging history. Meta is not per se breaking the E2E encryption, but their app contains a backdoor that reports some topic-level information back to Meta that could be used to deduce what you are talking about without totally breaking the confidentiality of your correspondence.

(All this is just a guess based on OP's report and the above quote.)

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#36
post #5

Just because that the messages might be sent end-to-end encrypted from Sue to Joe does not mean Meta cannot read them. Meta has control over the app Sue uses. So they could send them to Meta unencrypted in addition to sending them to Joe in an encrypted fashion. Or they just extract the relevant terms: Sue->Joe: "Hello Joe, I'm so excited! We are going to have a baby! Let's call it Dingbert. You're not the father! Ji…

Yup, I think it's just some form of analytics that profiles the user.

I've always suspected them of recording conversations, also why I think Android has gradually tightened permissions and visibilty around speech to text/microphone/camera use.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#37
post #3

IANAL of course, but you should read the ToS carefully and you will probably find something that allows them to read your messages anyway. e2e encryption doesn't forbid to read the messages as you type or read them or read a screenshot of the screen or whatever they can do inside an app :P They were caught activating your camera by "error" a while ago https://www.macrumors.com/2019/11/12/facebook-bug-camera-bac... As…

We are seeing the same thing. More so, my wife sent me a picture of my daughter working on a puzzle. Less than 24 hours later, her Instagram was showing ads for a store that was selling the same type of puzzle as the one my daughter was playing with. So it's not just terms but images too.

The more basic explanation is that she has been served ads for puzzles like that for a while, based on previous history and maybe retargeting from the company and you guys only notice the ad because it's more salient after sending a message with the puzzle in it.

There's no reason you'd have noticed an ad about the puzzle in the wash of content and other types of ads.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#38
I can attest I've seen this behaviour and played this game with a friend. We concocted obscure conversation points e.g "Flamingo statues" and not long after would get ads in the right ballpark of relevance on Instagram. Hard to know if it's nefarious as it could be mere coincidence or confirmation bias.

Tangental aside; it still confounds me where the business opportunity of WhatsApp resides for Meta if they "can't" get access to the data.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#39
post #22

Can someone working on WhatsApp weigh in on this or are there very restrictive NDA's? I would expect it's an interpretation of the TOS, so WhatsApp should be able to communicate if this is a possibility or not.

guess nobody from meta could comment on this without a legal writing the answer for them

Why would they want to even if they could? Nobody would believe their answer.

Re: Ask HN: Ads triggered by WhatsApp “end to end encrypted” messages?

#40
post #17

Some options: 1. Nobody is reading your WA messages, the same topics can be learned from your browsing activity or other msgs, eg. by reading your sms texts. 2. Meta is reading your messages directly in-transit, server-side. 3. Meta is not reading your messages server-side, but the Meta apps extract keywords from your conversations and request relevant ads from the ad servers. 4. Another non-Meta app is doing the abo…

Another option would be that META created a small model that could be run client-side and picked the right selection of ads to show elsewhere without even exfiltrating keywords.

Well, my wife sent me a picture of my daughter working on a puzzle. Less than 24 hours later, her Instagram was showing ads for a store that was selling the same type of puzzle as the one my daughter was playing with. So it's not just terms but images too.
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