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America’s Open Wound

edwardsnowden.substack.com

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Re: America’s Open Wound

#191

Post by fundad »

roflyear wrote: post #155
zmgsabst wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure your point? The speech following that brief crowd segment is the red with marines behind him — at a point where the light was on, rather than the one featured in the photo. I think there’s a reason you deep linked rather than show the beginning: the start is exactly the dark red set shown in the photo. I’d encourage people to watch from the beginning, where they dim the lights to get that effect: https:/…

My point should be obvious, but I know you're not looking for honest discussion. The image in the article and the video are drastically different. If you're scared of the color red, IDK what to tell you. The time I linked was random after clicking through the video to prove my memory right. Show me a time in the video that backs up your argument.

They are scared of the color red.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#192

Post by [deleted] »

CodeMage wrote: post #178
ssnistfajen wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or perhaps we don't need HN exceptionalism? Intelligence isn't translated universally onto all subject matters. Just because someone is good at writing code doesn't make them well-suited to understand any non-programming topics to have a well-informed or rational discussion about it. There's no reason why HN should have a higher quality discussion on these subjects than some generic subreddit or FB comment sections.…

> Or perhaps we don't need HN exceptionalism? It's not exceptionalism to lament the downfall of the tradition of carefully cultivated discourse. I still remember when this community used to be different, and this site was the one I went to first. > There's no reason why HN should have a higher quality discussion than some generic subreddit or FB comment sections. Yes, there is. HN uses to have a higher quality discus…

[deleted]

Re: America’s Open Wound

#193

Post by diputsmonro »

ur-whale wrote: post #130
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #121

I think I was already aware of most of the facts presented, but I'm not sure I know what argument is being made? That the CIA has not enough oversight? This is like a standard plot element in Hollywood movies and comic books, so that seems a little obvious. That the President of the United States shouldn't mention it if he learns someone is plotting a coup or terrorism in his country because that's hypocrisy? Legacy…

> This is like a standard plot element in Hollywood movies and comic books, so that seems a little obvious. Are you choosing to base your understanding of the world on the information found in Hollywood movies? I am not certain that's a very rational way to do things. BTW, no worries, you're not the only one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNy6F7ZwX8I

No, the point is that it's an idea that everyone is likely to be familiar with, so it's not particularly novel. Why do you think that became a trope in the first place?

Sure, the blog post is good in that it references specific real world events, but the thesis is not really new information.

Movies often show that the sky is blue, but that doesn't mean that our expectation of a blue sky is irrational. Nevermind the fact that those movie tropes, and much of art in general, is a reflection of real world issues and events. The idea is so pervasive because we already know that it's true.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#194

Post by strictnein »

Jaepa wrote: post #82
dvt wrote: post #22

A bit hypocritical of Snowden to criticize the USA while holed up in Russia. But maybe I'm a bit partial considering the USSR destroyed every semblance of culture and national identity in my home country, causing generations of corruption and trauma, and ultimately emboldening my family to move to the States--abandoning lifelong friends and family--where a much better life was possible. But please, keep lecturing us…

He's holed up in Russia because the United States stranded him there. He was in Hong Kong for the original reporting. When his identity was revealed the United States charged him under the Espionage Act, & revoked his passport. He was flying to Argentina through countries that didn't have extradition agreements with the United States. When he got off in Russia, his passport was confiscated as it was no-longer valid &…

You're missing a rather interesting step in his adventures: staying at the RU Consulate for several days in Hong Kong. And then he ends up "stuck" in Moscow. Surely a coincidence.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/report-snowden-stayed-a...

Re: America’s Open Wound

#195

Post by knodi123 »

CommieBobDole wrote: post #113
rendall wrote: post #2

Did any American read this without alarm? If so, why not?

'Alarm' is not really the right word; the CIA and its lack of accountability is a problem, but it's not a new problem or a particularly recently-worsening problem. It's one of the bad things about America that needs to be fixed, but Snowden does not provide any new information here. And honestly, while I agree with the gist of what he's saying here, I tend to view his more recent stuff with a bit of a suspicious eye;…

> I will take what he says with a grain of salt. Especially something like this, which is an opinion piece with no new information attached.

What's the grain of salt, if all of the information he presented is already well-known?

> But now, he's a citizen of the Russian Federation

In fact he is not. Although he has applied.

> Does he take that oath seriously?

It's unknown. Do you have access to any special information on this subject?

> If not, why do they tolerate him?

Can you truly not think of any reasons Russia might tolerate his presence even if he were not to seriously and honestly swear to do whatever they say?

He is a living middle finger to the US. Russia benefits from him simply being there and staying in the public awareness. I'm sure loyalty to Putin would be nice, but I bet they'd gladly accept simply not actively working to undermine Russia while he's there.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#196

Post by pstuart »

fundad wrote: post #175
timerol wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thesis seems to be that America's recent civil unrest is not exceptional, and only continues the pattern that the founding of the CIA and NSA started. The implication seems to be that making federal agencies more transparent would result in more widespread acceptance of American democracy internally, though that's never explicitly stated.

Let’s all let ourselves believe that the para-military movement is authentically at odds with any law enforcement agency.

That would be more comforting than the reality that there's a huge overlap.

Great power should have great oversight.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#197

Post by actionfromafar »

belltaco wrote: post #184
cronix wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing as how he's stuck there with nowhere else to go except prison in the US, and owes what little freedom he has to them, I think it's fairly obvious and smart to not speak ill of your host, especially considering what they're capable of. I'm quite sure he would have a LOT to say about it were he not stuck there. Yes, we know, if it were you you'd be condemning them to their face.

He could have remained silent, but he used the opportunity of the run up to the war to spread Russian propaganda about US agencies and media to his 5 million twitter followers. E.g. his tweet from not even 2 weeks before the invasion: >There is nothing more grotesque than a media pushing for war. https://mobile.twitter.com/snowden/status/149222362658580890... Why would he blame western media and intel agencies for Pu…

As long as he stays there, I will assume he might be under duress. Pardon him, then let's see.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#198

Post by euphetar »

So many people comment about how Snowden can't say things like this because he is in Russia. I wonder: how does it invalidate the facts? He links to Wikipedia. Maybe you don't want to believe Snowden, him being a traitor. Don't you believe Wikipedia? I don't see how Snowdens identity is even relevant to the subject.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#199

Post by throwaway0x7E6 »

jnovek wrote: post #87

Has everyone on Hacker News lost their minds? I come here to read and sometimes participate in rational discussions. These comments are some of the lowest effort, least rigorous, paranoid bullshit I’ve ever seen on this site. We’re a step above Facebook comments on NPR articles, here. Partisanship, viciousness and lazy conspiracy theories are not a good look for this site.

No post body was provided.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#200

Post by knodi123 »

jobs_throwaway wrote: post #32
zug_zug wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I think this article does a good job of saying CIA has done some crazy stuff. But then it goes from there to -> so let's get rid of it, which to me seems like potentially a much scarier proposition. It's not clear to me exactly how real the threat of foreign countries trying to tamper with our elections is, but if this is what the CIA does, I think it's probably naive to think no other nation would try things li…

>8-year-old girls shouldn't be assassinated, but in the scope of things, that's not a reason to get rid of an entire agency. Really? That seems exactly like the kind of thing that should get an agency canned, especially because its not an aberration. In fact, I'd say virtually any other agency that did so would be canned in short order. Why doesn't the CIA have to play by the same rules as everyone else? Especially w…

> That seems exactly like the kind of thing that should get an agency canned

But the article literally says she was killed during a commando attack ordered by Donald Trump.

I agree the CIA has done lots of awful things, and that knowingly or carelessly killing children should not be allowed. But did the CIA do this particular killing?

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