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America’s Open Wound

edwardsnowden.substack.com

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Re: America’s Open Wound

#121

Post by ZeroGravitas »

I think I was already aware of most of the facts presented, but I'm not sure I know what argument is being made?

That the CIA has not enough oversight? This is like a standard plot element in Hollywood movies and comic books, so that seems a little obvious.

That the President of the United States shouldn't mention it if he learns someone is plotting a coup or terrorism in his country because that's hypocrisy?

Legacy of Ashes is a good book on the CIA and he has one on the FBI (which covers the two groups petty infighting as well).

https://openlibrary.org/books/OL7441109M/Legacy_of_Ashes

Re: America’s Open Wound

#122

Post by blub »

humanistbot wrote: post #115
blub wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should he? He’s not Jesus or the world police.

Because he denied it was going to happen and expressed skepticism at Western intel reports about the invasion. Then he was silent after the invasion.

Yes, he was wrong, can happen. It’s also unrelated to his claims about US agencies and US democracy.

Why must he be a saint? He did more than most will do their entire lives already.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#123

Post by MisterBastahrd »

daemoens wrote: post #44
roenxi wrote: post #13

I have to ask, because I know that Biden was said to give a speech with bad optics but I never looked it up seriously - is that photo doctored?^W^W^W I just googled it myself. Whoever is doing his PR needs to be sacked for leaving him open to a photo like that.

Yeah the real photo with the full background is much more mundane but this is how politics will always be.

At least he didn't do something really despicable, like wear a tan suit.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#124

Post by propagandist »

dvt wrote: post #22

A bit hypocritical of Snowden to criticize the USA while holed up in Russia. But maybe I'm a bit partial considering the USSR destroyed every semblance of culture and national identity in my home country, causing generations of corruption and trauma, and ultimately emboldening my family to move to the States--abandoning lifelong friends and family--where a much better life was possible. But please, keep lecturing us…

It's hard to think of someone with as much integrity and spine as Edward Snowden. He is one of the greatest Americans, period.

Enjoy feeling happy and proud.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#125

Post by _jal »

throwawaymaths wrote: post #79
mc32 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It _is_ hypocritical of him, of course, but despite the hypocrisy he does have lessons for us and his hypocrisy does not negate the substance of the lessons. He's also between a rock and a hard pace. So I don't blame him too much. What I will say, is that if you choose to be a whistleblower, as honorable and moral that can be, you should be aware of and assume the consequences. That's the deal. It's not nice and the…

Is it hypocritical? No. Inconsistent? (This is the difference between an act of commission and an lie of omission) Yes, but potentially only temporary. Would Snowden speak out against Russia if the US dropped charges and let him come home? Who can say?

> if the US dropped charges

Well, I guess he's just trapped by the practical problems created by his peculiar combination of personal morality and cowardice.

If you claim whistle-blowing is justified by the exposed crimes and then run, whoever owns wherever you end up now owns you. If they happen to be worse... eh, you made your choice, now live with it.

He made his choice.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#126

Post by helen___keller »

I've never been a huge fan of his overly-evocative writing style. Not to say that what he's written is fake or wrong or misleading, but when I see this sort of emotionally charged writing my propaganda radar goes off. I can't stand reading it.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#127

Post by smm11 »

We support the police, yet attacked them on Jan. 6. We don't trust the government, yet those who were on the inside telling us what is wrong are also the enemy.

Re: America’s Open Wound

#128

Post by mgamache »

humanistbot wrote: post #115
blub wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should he? He’s not Jesus or the world police.

Because he denied it was going to happen and expressed skepticism at Western intel reports about the invasion. Then he was silent after the invasion.

He talks about it here:

https://www.coindesk.com/video/recent-videos/edward-snowden-...

Re: America’s Open Wound

#129

Post by weakfish »

marcusverus wrote: post #67
dvt wrote: post #22

A bit hypocritical of Snowden to criticize the USA while holed up in Russia. But maybe I'm a bit partial considering the USSR destroyed every semblance of culture and national identity in my home country, causing generations of corruption and trauma, and ultimately emboldening my family to move to the States--abandoning lifelong friends and family--where a much better life was possible. But please, keep lecturing us…

Snowden is bad because he's... in a bad country? Drivel! That the US is better than the USSR is hardly a laurel worth resting on. The US has, from before it even existed, always been about the pursuit of better government--of a more perfect union. There can be no improvement without criticism.

Agreed, true patriotism is not mindless support of country but the boldness to criticize it

Re: America’s Open Wound

#130

Post by ur-whale »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #121

I think I was already aware of most of the facts presented, but I'm not sure I know what argument is being made? That the CIA has not enough oversight? This is like a standard plot element in Hollywood movies and comic books, so that seems a little obvious. That the President of the United States shouldn't mention it if he learns someone is plotting a coup or terrorism in his country because that's hypocrisy? Legacy…

> This is like a standard plot element in Hollywood movies and comic books, so that seems a little obvious.

Are you choosing to base your understanding of the world on the information found in Hollywood movies?

I am not certain that's a very rational way to do things.

BTW, no worries, you're not the only one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNy6F7ZwX8I

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