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Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

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Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#411

Post by colejohnson66 »

hot_gril wrote: post #404
frio wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I somewhat agree, the big repair that most people are going to want to do pre- or post- sale is replacing the battery. If that's something that anyone can do now, it'll improve resale value.

I used to think this, but then all the Android phone-makers that used to tout user-removable batteries started gluing them in like Apple does, which sounded like the market speaking. Maybe it's not all that hard to replace the glued-in batteries anyway. Seems every mall has two tiny mid-hallway shops that can do it.

Samsung mocked Apple for removing the 3.5mm jack, but a few months later, did it themselves. Because the majority of consumers don’t care enough to do anything about it.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#412

Post by joshspankit »

surewe wrote: post #355
joshspankit wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that the driving force behind Apple’s new desire to be repairable is legislative. IMO: Not profit of the “self-service” repairs, nor the improvement to the bottom line when they refurbish their own devices. Not some future goal of selling people the parts and/or tools. Not the goal of being ecologically sustainable (though IMO they do very well at this). I think they are working very hard to steer the Right…

I don't see how software security relates to being able to repair hardware -- third party logic boards would most likely... not exist, for example.

I agree but Apple does not. If Right to Repair gets, as I say; “everything that it could in the interests of the public”, it would mean that software would not be able to restrict hardware.

No vendor-controlled unique IDs that need to be whitelisted in order to connect between chips or boards, no intrusive warnings about 3rd party parts that are installed, no undocumented protocols for basic functionality, and so-on.

And if they say they have to because of security that claim would be heavily scrutinized.

Way back in the day Microsoft tied IE in to Windows and leveraged it’s OS dominance to try to win the browser wars. Browsers, like hardware, are based on vendor-agnostic technologies and so MS felt it had to play dirty since there was no way for them to win a war where browsers are commodities. Back then the government stepped in as they recognized the fact that browsers are commodities and that paved the way for the majority of the web standards we rely on today.

Who knows what sort of fragmented web we would have if MS had been allowed to lock users in with their proprietary “improvements”. We may be at the same crossroads here with Right to Repair.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#413

Post by joshspankit »

threeseed wrote: post #362
joshspankit wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that the driving force behind Apple’s new desire to be repairable is legislative. IMO: Not profit of the “self-service” repairs, nor the improvement to the bottom line when they refurbish their own devices. Not some future goal of selling people the parts and/or tools. Not the goal of being ecologically sustainable (though IMO they do very well at this). I think they are working very hard to steer the Right…

> I suspect that the driving force behind Apple’s new desire to be repairable is legislative. I disagree. It's all about customer LTV. Apple is increasingly seeing a larger percentage of their revenue come from services e.g. Music, TV+ and iPhone-centric devices e.g. Apple Watch. Keeping users in the ecosystem is incredibly important to Apple so much that they are happy to have users use older phones for longer. Just…

You may be right.

My rebuttal is that Apple can only make system API changes through releasing new iOS versions and there have been many cases where they make an API change to kill competition.

Does YouTube music have the same system-wide integration that Apple Music does? No. Look at Dropbox even: Some versions ago Apple took away iOS app’s ability to upload in the background while Apple’s Photos app is free to do it 24/7. A user who takes a lot of photos and likes to store them in the cloud is either an iCloud user where everything works automatically, or a non-iCloud user where files are stalled until the app is on-screen for however long it takes to transfer them.

Apologies for getting ranty there. It’s hard to watch big tech these days, especially as someone who sees how much has been taken from us already.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#414

Post by smoldesu »

sfvegandude wrote: post #406
jitl wrote: post #9

Apple started offering home repair kits for iPhone this year, but they’re super difficult to use: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/25/technology/personaltech/a... There’s speculation that offering the kits is an attempt to head off right-to-repair legislation. But seeing this redesign, I wonder to what degree the repair program is incentivizing repairability within apple’s corporate structure. Now that “profit/loss pe…

Apple started offering home repair kits for iPhone this year, but they’re super difficult to use: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/25/technology/personaltech/a ... There’s speculation that offering the kits is an attempt to head off right-to-repair legislation. This comment, and those like it, are proof to me that there’s a large contingent of folks who don’t actually care about the repairability of iPhones, they just…

FWIW, Apple didn't actually address any of the problems their real critics (eg. third-party repair shops) espoused. The redesign in the linked article will only benefit Apple until they walk-back their asinine hardware-DRM (and ostensibly, their grip on OEM components).

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#415

Post by _V_ »

wrycoder wrote: post #409
_V_ wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iPhones had adhesive pull tabs for years now. You really did not need heat and force for that unless you ripped it. And even if you did rip those tabs IPA does much better job of un-adhering the battery as you really don't want to use excessive force on lithium pouch cells unless you like your repair job to get "fast & furious" :-)

Well, I've done several, and one of the pull tabs generally breaks no matter how slow and careful you are. Then, it's on to reheating everything and dragging a monofilament under the battery. Without a vacuum hold-down stage, it is difficult and annoying. I don't recollect iFixit recommending IPA, does that work?

I've found out that you really need to gut that thing like a fish before trying to pull on those :-) Unless you take out vibrator etc from the bottom you almost always break atleast one off.

Yeah, IPA and thin plastic shim card. These are often sold in lockpicking shops for door shimming - costs few bucks. Or directly from iFixit site (/products/plastic-cards). Just snip it in half so it is not as wide (careful not to leave sharp corner that coud tear up that battery!). Then slip it under the battery and use it to guide few drops of IPA under there. Worked for me every time with almost no hassle.

Just be careful because IPA is of course flammable. If you would puncture the battery or make it spark, you could end up having quite a bad day. But that probably applies for the monofilament-under-the-battery approach too.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#416

Post by smoldesu »

potatolicious wrote: post #125
kube-system wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d argue that they’re not over engineered at all. They’re engineered for a particular purpose. Which is: Apple doing warranty repair. I love how people used to complain that Apple didn’t make their tools available, and now people complain that their tools are too nice. Well duh, did people think that Apple was using hairdryers and guitar picks for warranty work?

Yeah I really wonder what people's expectations are here. "First step by putting a hair dryer to the front face of the phone and turning it up to max. We don't really know what temperature that will be, but hopefully it's enough to loosen the adhesive. Now improvise a tool for lifting the screen off, hopefully you won't cut the ribbon cables underneath while doing that - maybe a guitar pick? Ok then, when reassemblin…

The actual critics are mostly mad at the way Apple prevents them from using legal donor boards to make less-wasteful repairs. Apple heard this, and their response is an 80-lb rent-able flight-case of random equipment.

Admittedly, it made for some great free PR on YouTube. As for addressing the concerns of the right-to-repair community... they would have been better off just uploading board schematics for the M1 Air and calling it a day. Most repair shops would probably feel less offended if they did.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#417

Post by dkonofalski »

hot_gril wrote: post #402
dkonofalski wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if they're swapping with a machine that they refurbished. They can keep swapping them ad infinitum. That's what Asurion does with cell phone warranty claims. You pay a $150 deductible and you get a refurbished phone in exchange. They fix the part that was broken on your phone that you're returning to them and it gets refurbed to the next person.

That just makes it faster. They still have to repair it either way.

Yes, but they don't have to use genuine Apple parts or verify any of it through Apple's services. With Apple's repairs, they disassemble the devices and re-use the parts for service. With these third parties, they don't have to use parts that are at parity with the originals.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#418

Post by dkonofalski »

hot_gril wrote: post #342
dkonofalski wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here you go: https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/11/20/apple-says-repair...

It's not clear there what counts towards the revenue and towards costs, since third-party repair shops are involved. I want to know if one user taking a phone to Apple for repair costs them more than the user pays, and they don't really say, nor is it a simple answer with all the fixed costs and shared resources involved (like, stores have footprints, and geniuses do other stuff too). Third-party repair shops are a m…

Surely those responses would be under such intense scrutiny, from several different angles, to say that it's simply nonsense being spun to its maximum.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#419

Post by _V_ »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #410
_V_ wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

??? Please read the thread (shrug emoji).

All I’ve found is that you don’t like the idea, not why

> If you cannot get parts in stock (meaning in advance), you might as well send it to the Apple and not bother with repair shop at all.

Because that idea is BS, designed just to block 3rd party repair shops from doing quick repairs leaving you with the same (or worse) level of service that Apple itself offers.

Why on Earth would anyone need to provide SN of the phone to buy consumable such as battery? Makes no sense at all. Even the display is stupid because most of the time people come to the repair shop is because Apple takes 2 weeks & wipes data from device. Which is kinda problem for many people since they often don't have another $$$ for spare phone and also forgot to backup.

Almost any other vendor lets you buy parts such as LCD or battery and just swap it. And for most of the phones you can do that kind of work in under an hour.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#420

Post by j16sdiz »

_V_ wrote: post #384
aardvarkr wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They gave him three machines to use for replacing his battery. 1. A machine to melt the glue holding the battery in place 2. A machine to apply even pressure to the new battery to ensure it’s properly adhered 3. A machine to apply heat and even pressure to the entire phone to properly give the phone with a watertight seal. That seems like exactly what I’d expect has to happen to repair the phone back to original spec…

Any modern iPhone has its battery held by pull tabs (double sided tape that lets go when you pull on it sideways). They are sometimes PITA to remove but you just need tweezers, fingers and bit of luck to remove it :-) Adhering the battery is the same - just press in place. Heat is only needed for opening/closing the phone.

Are they water tight after repair? Can you re-open with the same ease?
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