Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#371

Post by newtritious » Mon, Sep 19, 2022, 9:58 PM UTC

smoldesu wrote: post #282

saiya-jin wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of uncritical comments in any post around apple on HN is usually quite something, I wouldn't get too excited about that. Its mainly US website so that's to be expected. That being said, there are some good points raised here by folks. If you don't like how Apple does things overall, there are mighty fine competitors that provide even more in some areas and are not Chinese, but they do charge premium for th…

The problem is that we should be able to choose, not Apple. Overriding Apple's software choices should not necessitate leaving the ecosystem, period. Especially considering Apple is the largest company in the world , it shouldn't be a problem for them to add a few toggles. We need regulation to hold them accountable for these simple options, but knowing Apple (and how deep in bed they are with the US government) this…

Those few toggles would defeat the security protections. Most people want a security. Indeed most people never even repair a phone.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#372

Post by robocat » Mon, Sep 19, 2022, 10:03 PM UTC

dwaite wrote: post #309

shuntress wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are conflating separate concerns. Tracking serial numbers to black-list stolen parts (too much effort for too little value IMO but I'm not a bean counter for a nation-state-sized corporation so what do I know?) is very different from white-listing ordained parts. Independent shops should be able to buy broken phones from individuals and part them out for repairs without jumping through Apple's hoops.

> Independent shops should be able to buy broken phones from individuals and part them out for repairs without jumping through Apple's hoops. I assume in this scenario that all independent shops are trustworthy entities that won't use stolen, reclaimed, or third-party parts in order to save money, without informing the customer?

Apple could provide a genuine parts and stolen parts tracking tool for the most valuable parts: screen, camera, motherboard.

The goal is to make stolen iPhones worth nearly zero to thieves, which makes iPhones more valuable to all iPhone owners. Otherwise stolen iPhones are worth enough to incentivise a stolen iPhone economy. https://www.ifixit.com/Parts/iPhone_13/Screens Not having your phone stolen is worth your replacement cost to you.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#373

Post by Spivak » Mon, Sep 19, 2022, 10:09 PM UTC

postalrat wrote: post #268

Spivak wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's own code also implements all the security of the device. The mechanism Apple has to run arbitrary untrusted code on the device is their JavaScript engine. Whatever you want to replace JSC with, like V8, isn't the thing that's constrained by the sandbox, it's the thing that implements the sandbox. Everyone who's like "just sandbox it" -- yeah that's exactly what JSC is for.

What protects an ios user from a malicious app? Just the agreement the app developer made with apple?

Sorta kinda, iOS apps are jailed using all the normal stuff you might find in a hardened Linux distribution but there isn't a system in the whole wide world that is confident that these kinds of jails are sufficient to safely run arbitrary untrusted code. This is half the reason Firecracker exists on Linux because containerization just isn't enough. Hence why it's only allowed to run actually sandboxed in the JavaScript VM and even then the JIT makes it not airtight. This is how past Jailbreak exploits worked.

Like we're talking about code running in a VM completely isolated from the host system but has one teeeeny tiny escape hatch, a single WX page used by the JIT and that has been exploited multiple times.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#374

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Sep 19, 2022, 10:14 PM UTC

greyhair wrote: post #219

From the text of the article: "Every Android phone opens from the back." I have replaced screens an a couple different models of Motorola phones, and the screens popped off the front. Just looking at my Pixel 5a, the screen clearly pops off the front. This wouldn't bother me as much, except it is on the ifixit web site, which posts videos on screens repairs, that clearly show any number of Android phones being opened…

[deleted]

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#375

Post by frio » Mon, Sep 19, 2022, 10:15 PM UTC

hot_gril wrote: post #341

majani wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would matter if it was highlighted. People care about repairability of expensive items. Admittedly, it is a secondary concern, but I would say it is probably the top secondary concern

A secondary concern is resale value. Repairability isn't even that. To put it one way, even if you could repair an iPhone with legos, I think it'd sway few to zero buyers from an alternative.

While I somewhat agree, the big repair that most people are going to want to do pre- or post- sale is replacing the battery. If that's something that anyone can do now, it'll improve resale value.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#376

Post by waffleiron » Mon, Sep 19, 2022, 10:26 PM UTC

matt-attack wrote: post #333

sangnoir wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean that 75pound repair equipment requiring $1200 hold on a card... How is this legal? Holds ought to be capped at the maximum payable for a transaction.

What's the problem if you intend to return it?

Not everyone has 1200 USD laying around.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#377

Post by mkagenius » Mon, Sep 19, 2022, 10:32 PM UTC

babypuncher wrote: post #250

mkagenius wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not for iphones, but macbooks have a habit of dying on me. My 10 day old macbook pro's logic board died and the replacement new macbook's palm rest started giving clicking sound within 10 days again. How can i be so unlucky. Apple certainly is overlooking QC with macbooks.

I qualified my statement with "out of warranty". I have had to take A logic board randomly dying 10 days after purchase would certainly be covered under the factory warranty.

What I wanted to convey with the extreme examples was that macbooks die more often due to QC issue or something. They have died after the first year of warranty thrice on me.

Due to this it is certainly mandatory to buy applecare+ for macbooks. I have not used iphones after the 5s so can't comment on that but it seems they have less problem than Macs.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#378

Post by _V_ » Mon, Sep 19, 2022, 10:39 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #358

_V_ wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congrats. My battery change took them 2 weeks, had to send it. Came back wiped. I guess it depends on where you are (Central Europe for me)

You mean you sent your phone in without wiping it in the first place? I always wipe my phone before handing it to Apple.

Yeah, I made a mental shortcut when writing that - sorry :-)

Of course I wiped it beforehand - they told me that they will have to send it somewhere and it would get wiped regardless.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#379

Post by synaesthesisx » Mon, Sep 19, 2022, 10:39 PM UTC

dkonofalski wrote: post #112

Someone1234 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That "unlimited" thing only impacts a very small number of devices. It is a better headline than reality. Previously you could have two accidental damage incidents PER YEAR, which means four for a standard Applecare+ 24 months plan. How many people, realistically, had over four accidental damage incidents in a two-year period wherein they benefit from this "unlimited" change? As I said, it is good marketing, a very n…

I don't even have a case on my phone (and never have on any phone in the past) and have never had an incident. I know at least 5 people that have broken their phones more than 4 times per year and they all use cases. Some people just do not treat their electronics like the expensive devices they are.

I do not use cases, and have dropped my naked iPhone 13 Pro Max many many times (with $29 screen replacements via AppleCare, I'm fine taking the risk). This phone has literally hit concrete and has yet to crack, a testament to the durability improvements.

Re: Apple’s iPhone 14 Redesign for Repair

#380

Post by jorvi » Mon, Sep 19, 2022, 10:44 PM UTC

ertemplin wrote: post #260

jorvi wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To date, no HN discussion of this crypto-pairing of the phone to its parts has revealed an alternative solution that would be effective at Apple’s scale for preventing phones from being hacked by a parts swap while also allowing any part to be swapped in Random-ass repair shops are not going to expend the effort of putting in fake parts to hack you to.. hack a couple of thousand dollars off of your account and then…

The "your X has been replaced" pop-up doesn't handle the situation where an attacker knows your passcode. I think you might also be failing to account for situations where you aren't in possession of your phone for an hour or two. Imagine if police in a foreign country take your phone for a couple of hours and then give it back to you. Or you leave your phone in a hotel room to charge for a few hours. Or your phone g…

> The "your X has been replaced" pop-up doesn't handle the situation where an attacker knows your passcode.

If this is the case, they can add their own fingerprint or face (alternate look feature) to your iPhone. You’re thoroughly pwned at that point, no hardware swaps necessary.

> I think you might also be failing to account for situations where you aren't in possession of your phone for an hour or two

If I came back to my unattended phone after 2 hours and it was giving me a pop-up about a swapped part, I would never trust that phone again.

> I don't think you can expect every potential target to constantly set their iphone to lockdown mode.

If they are that much of an attractive target, their organizations would be stupid not to enforce it. I know that Lockheed used to give personnel that was China-bound a throwaway laptop and would shred it the moment they returned to the USA.