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An X11 apologist tries Wayland

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Re: An X11 apologist tries Wayland

#351

Post by zitsarethecure »

giantdude wrote: post #8

From https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Wayland "The X11 protocol was designed around running graphical apps across the network. While some people use this feature, it's far from common. Wayland drops this requirement as a way to greatly simplify its architecture." X client and server are usually the same machine, but they don't have to be. While on the road, you can use your notebook to open a Gimp session on your home machine…

X11 is way too slow to run something like gimp remotely, unless perhaps you are sitting near the other machine connected via gigabit ethernet. Giving that up is an easy win for better everything else.

Re: An X11 apologist tries Wayland

#352

Post by yunohn »

sprash wrote: post #345
yunohn wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's an infiltrated project. By whom… exactly?

Whoever wants to sabotage the Linux Desktop, or more precisely a community developed Linux Desktop. The biggest sponsors of GNOME are IBM and Google. Who knows what their agenda ist.

You’re right, IBM & Google have teamed up to brainwash and secretly hire all the OSS developers for GNOME. Their goal is to stealthily undermine the Linux Desktop by implementing other half baked OSS tech in place of currently broken OSS tech, all while the public is bamboozled.

/s just in case…

Re: An X11 apologist tries Wayland

#353

Post by greatquux »

sampa wrote: post #278

Wayland on Gnome is no-go for me. My desktop runs for weeks and I often Alt+F2: r[estart] Gnome, cause of memory leaks and sluggishness. On X11 it is painless, since it doesn't affect my running GUI programs. On Wayland it kills everything. Too bad.

Same here. I need to restart gnome shell everytime I update an extension for some stupid reason, but it's easy and I don't lose any work. This is a sucky design decision that is just a showstopper for me. I wish it the best I guess...

Re: An X11 apologist tries Wayland

#354

Post by loudmax »

jshdheoshso wrote: post #332
gpm wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wayland is not GNOME, what you describe is not Wayland problem, but GNOME problem. Which in turn is the biggest problem with wayland. We are fragmenting the ecosystem with every window manager dealing with shared problems in their own custom way, because wayland only takes responsibility for a tiny fraction of the common things that every window manager does.

Quoted post unavailable.

I'd be reluctant to attribute Gnome development to malice when it can quite easily be explained by incompetence.

Fortunately, Linux has desktop alternatives that are better than Gnome. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to find an alternative that isn't better than Gnome.

Re: An X11 apologist tries Wayland

#355

Post by sandreas »

cqz wrote: post #322
emidoots wrote: post #7

I recently tried switching to Linux with a few different distro's (Ubuntu, Elementary OS, etc.) and use Wayland. The thing that sticks out like a sore thumb to me, and which I've been unable to solve, is that apparently it's not possible to configure trackpad scroll speed. At all. From what I was able to gather, Wayland/libinput say they shouldn't be responsible for handling it and instead window managers should[0][1…

Use the scroll-factor setting of libinput-config[0] to configure this on DEs that do not provide their own tool (i.e., GNOME). [0] https://gitlab.com/warningnonpotablewater/libinput-config

You sir, deserve a cookie!

I can't thank you enough for pointing this out. Now (finally) my scrolling is acceptable on Fedora 36.

See https://www.reddit.com/r/Fedora/comments/qn0o9w/adjust_touch... for some further fedora specific instructions, but also read the instructions of the repository.

Do you also know a possibility to stop inertial/kinetic scrolling on two-finger-tap / rightclick? (left click works, but since I scroll with two fingers, it would feel much more natural on rightclick)

Re: An X11 apologist tries Wayland

#356

Post by Izkata »

kaba0 wrote: post #348
dotancohen wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there is an implementation - to that GP was referring.

No, there is Gnome’s, KDE’s, Weston’s (the reference), and Sway (wlroots)’s implementation. This latter is pretty much a library to build your own de with minimal code up on top.

If that's the case, that there's no common code they're all built on, then why does anyone talk about "Wayland" anything?

All these conversations end up kinda pointless because of a sort of "it works on my machine[desktop environment]".

Re: An X11 apologist tries Wayland

#357

Post by Kamq »

throwaway892238 wrote: post #131

Is there a single Wayland supporter who finds the user experience to be better than X11? Because my understanding of Wayland is that the only people who want it are gui devs.

> Because my understanding of Wayland is that the only people who want it are gui devs.

That might be, but by definition those that are the devs decide what everyone uses.

I mean, if you're willing to pay them to work on something else, fine, but as long as this stuff is run mostly by volunteers, that's kind of the score.

Re: An X11 apologist tries Wayland

#359

Post by llimllib »

moffkalast wrote: post #330
llimllib wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's me, 3 years ago, complaining about the exact same bug: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21248799 pretty sad to see that absolutely nothing has changed.

Nothing says Linux like maintainers of a fragmented ecosystem pointing at each other saying it's not up to them to fix something.

To me the interesting/sad bit is that individually, I can see all of their points; the system is set up in such a way that there is nobody whose job it is to cut through the nonsense and keep the user in mind.

Re: An X11 apologist tries Wayland

#360

Post by nine_k »

bxparks wrote: post #61
kelnos wrote: post #12

As a fellow X11 apologist, this was pretty cool to read. It's nice to see that things are shaping up, even if there are still quite a few rough edges. Having said that, I'm still a die-hard Xfce user, and until someone makes an xfwm4-like Wayland compositor, and ports (at least) xfce4-panel and xfdesktop to Wayland, I'm not gonna switch. Edit: ok, looks like there's Hopalong ( https://github.com/iridescent-desktop/ho…

Every 2 years I take Xfce (Xubuntu, Mint Xfce) for a test drive. It seems light and fast, I want to like it. Then every 2 years, I rediscover that the resize border on each window is 1px wide, which is completely unusable. When I google for a solution, the answer seems to be use Alt-Left-Mouse. I don't understand how that is a solution. I don't want to use 2 hands to resize a window.

Wat. I'm writing this from under Xfce. Just targeted my mouse pointer at a window border, moved it around. No, the resize-sensitive width is deifinitely wider than 1 px.

Have you tried changing the window title / border theme in Settings / Window Manager? There are a few themes with resize corners only provided on top and bottom, and with left/right borders 1px thick; you might have switched to that and had the frustration. But there are definitely a number of themes with comfortably thick border. (My preferred one is Smoothwall.)

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