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Putin’s Energy War with Europe Seems to Falter

wsj.com

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Re: Putin’s Energy War with Europe Seems to Falter

#111

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

someweirdperson wrote: post #81
camillomiller wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are not our people (non christian, non white). Ukrainians are. There is absolutely a difference that could be called racism, or more keenly it’s the fact that people are moved more by what they consider more close and similar to themselves. Just to be clear, I think that’s wrong, but I wouldn’t compare those two examples with Ukraine.

The difference is that their defence works. When the war started, everyone assumed Russia would take over quickly, and things would go back to normal (for western countries, not Ukraine). But no, it did not end quickly, ooops. Now they need help, weapons start to be delivered. Still no-one really believing that they would repel Russia, so just some simple defensive items to show support. 200 days forward, they are ac…

> It's as if they need to prove that they are worth to be supported, instead of deploying what is needed as early as possible.

In a way, yes - if Russians managed to take over in the first days, all this modern weapons would be in their hands.

Re: Putin’s Energy War with Europe Seems to Falter

#112

Post by redscareone »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #99
redscareone wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I was thinking recently. Would I prefer to die in an atomic blast or live under Russian occupation? Having seen some scenes from Bucha and other places I'm inclined toward the former.

No post body was provided.

Re: Putin’s Energy War with Europe Seems to Falter

#113

Post by ZeroGravitas »

DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #101
xwolfi wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe France can take over, at a lower productive level certainly. We have less ideology in energy sourcing (I d say many of us may even be proud of nuclear power and I had enough insanely aggressive debate with our German friends to know there s someth wrong there in how they represent it), we can find a way to change our work culture to target profitability a bit more and we can take as many german refugees as we n…

If you want to be a bit paranoid, but not entirely unrealistic, you might see a connection between Germany's aversion to nuclear power and our reliance on Russian gas. I wouldn't go as far as to believe that Russia has infiltrated our whole politics to the point where they can dictate what energy sources we use, but they may well have taken some degree of influence over public perception of nuclear power as inherentl…

You don't need to be paranoid to think that Russia is influencing energy policy:

> Speaking at a global manufacturing conference, the president said: "Wind-powered generation is good but are birds being taken into account in this case? How many birds are dying?"

> "[Wind turbines] shake, causing worms to come out of the soil. This is not a joke," he said.

...

> A study published in 2009 looking at the US and Europe estimated that wind farms were responsible for about 0.3 bird deaths for every 1GWh of electricity generated, compared with 5.2 deaths per 1GWh caused by fossil-fuelled power stations.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-48936941

Russia is currently wasting their own money, which they could spend on wars and other useful stuff, by not deploying wind energy, and that's only going to become more true:

> The introduction of a cross-border carbon tax by the EU in the near future or the fact that customers out- side Russia want to decrease their purchases of pollut- ing energy carriers may become a significant incentive for the RES development in Russia, including wind en- ergy. Russian exporters will be interested in investing in renewable energy to save on carbon duties. The entire Russian economy will also be interested in this as it is more profitable to invest the financial resources in the development of green industries within the country than allowing the duties to be paid abroad.

https://wwindea.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/210319-FESMOS...

Re: Putin’s Energy War with Europe Seems to Falter

#114

Post by thrown_22 »

skc wrote: post #68
cm2187 wrote: post #45

But long term, despite their history of moronic energy policy, I don't see the EU making itself dependent again on Russian gas (or any other critical commodity). Which is kind of a problem for a commodity driven economy like Russia.

Surprisingly short-sighted by the Russians

Wait until the winter is over before you say anything.

We're looking at likely blackouts in Germany, things that only happened in third world hell holes and Texas until recently.

Re: Putin’s Energy War with Europe Seems to Falter

#115

Post by redscareone »

mellavora wrote: post #77
redscareone wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

hmm, an instant reply, from a newly created account, leading with a patently false accusation followed by extreme examples which don't match reality. yes, looks like typical move of Russian-sponsored actors. Thanks, redscareone, that's exactly the kind of proof my argument needed.

No post body was provided.

Re: Putin’s Energy War with Europe Seems to Falter

#116

Post by thrown_22 »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #3

> European governments say Mr. Putin’s gambit is to cut natural-gas supplies to inflict pain on European households and businesses so populations turn against current government policies of sanctions against Russia and support for Ukraine with weapons and financial aid. He's so terribly wrong. He doesn't know Europeans at all. There is no way people would say, "We are cold so it is fine to kill Ukrainians." How could…

Europeans slept quite soundly for 40 years when it was Muslims being killed for oil.

Give it one good cold winter and Ukrainians will also become sub-humans.

Re: Putin’s Energy War with Europe Seems to Falter

#117

Post by windock »

SlickNixon wrote: post #105
DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who's is sending weapons to Ukraine for free ? Who is putting military base around the country ? Who's putting "defensive" missile launcher around the country? All of this is irrelevant. > It is not just Russia VS Ukraine. Yes. Yes it is. Russian soldiers are shooting at Ukrainian soldiers, and Ukrainian soldiers are shooting at Russian soldiers. That's it. No NATO soldiers are shooting at or being shot at by anyon…

>Russian soldiers are shooting at Ukrainian soldiers, and Ukrainian soldiers are shooting at Russian soldiers. That's it. This is a gross oversimplification given that most soldiers don't do any shooting at all.

If NATO was at war with Russia, it would be absolutely clear for everyone.

Iran and North Korea help Russia with military supplies, and there is no question if Ukraine is at war with them.

Countries tend to help their friends during war.

Re: Putin’s Energy War with Europe Seems to Falter

#118

Post by ptr »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #95
ptr wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukrainians in occupied territories seem to get murdered, tortured and raped. So yeah I think it’s fair to say they’d be better off without the Russians.

It’s a war. What did you expect exactly? Now that the Ukrainians are taking back territories I fully expect the purging related stories to be on their way and it’s not going to look pretty as usual. Wars are disgusting affairs. You can’t base your analysis on the reported exactions committed by one side. That’s just setting you as an easy target for propaganda.

1. You're contradicting yourself: in your third point, you say that I shouldn't trust that civilians are getting murdered, raped and tortured. But in your first point, you say that I should be expecting such behavior.

2. I'd expect there to not be a war to begin with. Russia 100% controls this, and can stop whenever they want.

3. War doesn't have to be done in the most brutal way possible.

4. "the purging related stories to be on their way and it’s not going to look pretty as usual" I don't understand what this means.

I'm getting very strong pro-Russian vibes from your comments. Not going to reply anymore -- real people are dying.

Re: Putin’s Energy War with Europe Seems to Falter

#119

Post by ptr »

diimdeep wrote: post #88
yread wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends who you ask: Russia: NATO is at war with us. We're not at war with anyone cause it's a special military operation Everyone else: Russia and Ukraine are at war

> Depends who you ask: Well, you will hear some opinion, based on some perspective. Almost always it is not whole truth, but a subset of facts. But there is so much more at play. What bothers me is how western news manipulative and no one really notice. News giving everyone a subset of facts, while omitting others, not painting the entire truth. They are not lying, but at the same time manipulate opinion of a large p…

What important piece of the puzzle are western media omitting that makes this not a war between Russia and Ukraine? What is the whole truth, according to you? Ironically, you're the one omitting right now.

Re: Putin’s Energy War with Europe Seems to Falter

#120

Post by ptr »

thrown_22 wrote: post #116
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #3

> European governments say Mr. Putin’s gambit is to cut natural-gas supplies to inflict pain on European households and businesses so populations turn against current government policies of sanctions against Russia and support for Ukraine with weapons and financial aid. He's so terribly wrong. He doesn't know Europeans at all. There is no way people would say, "We are cold so it is fine to kill Ukrainians." How could…

Europeans slept quite soundly for 40 years when it was Muslims being killed for oil. Give it one good cold winter and Ukrainians will also become sub-humans.

That's what Putin thinks at least.
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