Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://www.techdirt.com/2020/06/23/hello-youve-been-referre...
Devil's advocate here (I won't comment on if I agree with the argument or not), but this article seems to miss the point of the section 230 debate. All of the stuff here is about what the law is now. The objection most people have is that it shouldn't be like this and we need to change or remove section 230. It specifically allows sites to be biased while also not holding them legally accountable for anything they ch…
Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy
351–360 of 407 posts
Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy
#352The problem is that no automatic method we have now will catch context. There is a difference between "Jews were murdered by Germans during war" and "Jews destroyed German economy before the war" that will not be recognized by any machine we have nowadays. The first is true, the second is bullshit, how algorithm can now this? More, even if Facebook employees humans to do moderation still for some contractor from Asia…
It's gotta be crowdsourced. Like reddit/hn voting. But smarter. Like voting weights the value of peer's votes and such. I think it's the only way. Otoh, the true Lord of the Flies might emerge that way. Maybe democracy is inherently flawed. I dunno. Experiments are called for. How do we test social media designs?
Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy
#353Earlier quoted context omitted.
> How do you honestly think this would go? They destroy the certifications of the electoral votes from the states (as almost happened[0]), causing various states to (disingenuously) disagree about how to replace the lost documents. Enough FUD (and lawsuits, and delays) would be generated during this period of public disorientation that the Republican party could exploit the ambiguity of the Constitutional phrase "a m…
So your thinking is that the republican party, which by and large already disagreed with trump(to the extent a republican was the alleged "target" of the riot), would side with him after his supporters murder Mike Pence, said republican? You can dislike republicans all you want but this is just another level.
In such a circumstance, it's hard to imagine the state delegations of Republican states deciding to throw away a perfectly legal and constitutional opportunity to elect their guy to the presidency. If it makes you feel any better, I would expect Democrat delegations to vote for the Democrat candidate if there were ever a contingent election, even if that candidate didn't have a plurality of electoral votes (perhaps at least justifying their decision by pointing to the popular vote, which their candidate might nevertheless have won).
Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy
#354Earlier quoted context omitted.
Under that logic, the US was over thrown back in 2000 when the supreme court decided the outcome of an election.
>Under that logic, the US was over thrown back in 2000 when the supreme court decided the outcome of an election. That's a really reductive (and, in my view, incorrect) take on the issues in Florida in 2000. It was a hot mess, and I think (IANAL, so I may well be talking out of my ass) the Supreme Court should have kicked this back to the Florida courts, but all such activity was within the bounds of the US Constitut…
Your argument is that "Republican governors" could follow the processes of the government to somehow influence an election. I don't even think what you're describing is possible. But if it is, well that is the government just following it's own processes. If that makes you upset, you apparently feel that our government is not legitimate. The Republican vs Democrat vs whatever is irrelevant. If the government decides it doesn't like the outcome of an election & throws it out, that's the governments choice.
You're in the same boat that somehow champion's the idea the Roe v. wade is the "correct" decision of the Supreme court on abortion. Guess what: the supreme court basically just goes with whatever is popular at present. You love the idea of the fairy tale high school civics course where the US is some bastion of righteousness & freedom. How many times did the Supreme Court rule that slavery was all fine & dandy? Apparently enough we fought a war over it and had to get Congress to authorize amendments explaining that slavery was in fact not OK.
Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy
#355Here we are, deep down in the dystopia of Automatic Content Classification by robots. Far less important of an example, but I was just put in "Facebook jail" for 24 hours for posting a picture of my son at the beach in his bathing suit with no shirt. Y'know, as one does at the beach. I can only assume it's because my son has long hair and the Convolutional Neural Network or whatever decided he was a girl and therefor…
Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy
#356Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Under that logic, the US was over thrown back in 2000 when the supreme court decided the outcome of an election. That's a really reductive (and, in my view, incorrect) take on the issues in Florida in 2000. It was a hot mess, and I think (IANAL, so I may well be talking out of my ass) the Supreme Court should have kicked this back to the Florida courts, but all such activity was within the bounds of the US Constitut…
The government follows the processes of the government. That's how it works. Keep in mind, there is literally 1 mention of the Supreme court in the constitution. It says Congress can "ordain and establish it". It doesn't say anything about Congress authorizing the Supreme Court to decide the outcome of elections, which is what happened. So if we strictly stick to this idea that somehow one election is this critical,…
So I'm still not clear what chain of reasoning you're using here.
I'll recap my statements to make sure I'm being clear.
You said:
>Your argument is that "Republican governors" could follow the processes of the government to somehow influence an election. I don't even think what you're describing is possible.
That's not my argument at all. Nor did I mention state governors (Republican or otherwise). Rather, I was referring to the 12th Amendment which states, in part:
"The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice." [emphasis added]
As I stated in my initial comment, 26 states[2] had Republican majority delegations. Had the election gone to the House for resolution, it's likely that Trump would have been elected (Or maybe not, given the 10 Republican Representatives who voted to impeach Trump) by a vote of 26-23(or 24). Which, of course, would be in direct contravention of the November, 2020 election results.
That's to what I was referring in the comment[1] to which you originally replied. It's not clear to me how following the process set out in the 12th Amendment is akin (or even related, except that it concerned a Presidential election) to the events leading up to and including the 2000 Bush v. Gore decision.
As for the 2000 Presidential election, I'm not clear what you're getting at WRT to an "overthrow" of the government.
Since Marbury v. Madison[3] in 1803, it's been the case in the US that the US Supreme Court is the "supreme" court.
While there have been numerous (some of which you mention) "supremely" bad decisions by that court, and, in fact, as I stated in the second comment[4] to which you replied), I thought Bush v. Gore shouldn't have been decided by the US Supreme Court.
Whether you approve or disapprove specific Supreme Court decisions (I disagree with many myself, not least of which is the Dobbs decision BTW), that doesn't invalidate the decisions.
What's more, the results[4] of the Florida election, while having been reviewed repeatedly, show a really close election which could have gone either way, dependent on a multitude of factors.
All that said, for both elections, the circumstances and outcomes, while hotly debated, were certainly within constitutional bounds.
I still don't get the logical line of reasoning that takes you from the 12th amendment to the decision in Bush v. Gore. Primarily because you haven't provided one.
What's more, you seem to be ascribing a whole bunch of beliefs and attitudes to me which I do not hold.
[0] https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-12/
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32872345
[2] https://www.270towin.com/2020-house-election/state-by-state/...
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marbury_v._Madison
[4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32873337
[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_United_States_presidentia...
Edit: Cleaned up my prose. Added the missing link, reordered references.
Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy
#357Here we are, deep down in the dystopia of Automatic Content Classification by robots. Far less important of an example, but I was just put in "Facebook jail" for 24 hours for posting a picture of my son at the beach in his bathing suit with no shirt. Y'know, as one does at the beach. I can only assume it's because my son has long hair and the Convolutional Neural Network or whatever decided he was a girl and therefor…
Don't worry, Google's already doing it. And destroying your digital life if you've put too much stuff in their care. With the characteristic Google customer service of "go fuck yourself".
Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy
#358Earlier quoted context omitted.
And yet here I was, posting a picture of my kids at the beach so my mom and friends could see them, and I ended up banned from participating on Facebook for 24 hours and accused of violating community decency. They're f*cked.
Yeah... so I honestly consider this to be a separate (also horrible, for avoidance of doubt) problem than "moderation"? Like, Apple and Google aren't exactly having a moderation problem when it comes to attempts to curtail CSAM stored on their photos platforms (which has led to their automated flagging systems and then need to scale to the entire world of users appeals and escalation, and then the subsequent concern…
And destroying your digital life if you've put too much stuff in their care. With the characteristic Google customer service of "go fuck yourself".
Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy
#359Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I was reading quite a lot recently about war in Angola and still I have doubts which side was "good" and which was "bad", besides that people who lived there were hurt in the history like almost no other nation. Norm MacDonald (I didn't even know he was sick) is said to have made the following quote, which is an interesting filter to look at all you know about history through. "It says here in this history book tha…
> It says here in this history book that; luckily, the good guys have won every single time. Is that really true? The conquest of the Americas is near-universally seen as "evil" defeating at least "innocent" if not "good". Leaving aside the people who say "The Aztecs had it coming". The Roman empire did some pretty shitty things, that most people would recognize as evil (slavery, Celtic genocide) but is still regarde…
Re: Facebook bans Holocaust film for violating race policy
#360Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, but the opposition that the left once fronted to the NSA's surveillance has withered in the past ten years or so and (some) republicans have picked up the slack. Not too long ago the "war on terror" was considered to be the road to authoritarianism, now democrats are openly championing making it a new domestic war on terror. To those who opposed the war on terror from the beginning it's scary how quickly this opp…
Quoted post unavailable.
Somehow a huge swarm of a generally armed demographic left their guns at home when attempting a 'coup'.
Or maybe they just went to protest what they thought to be a wrongful state of affairs, and the situation devolved into a riot. Who knows. Maybe you can pull off a coup against the United States with selfie sticks instead of F15s.