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US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

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Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#441

Post by jlokier »

saiya-jin wrote: post #416
macrolime wrote: post #227

Even if you are a person who will never in your life end up as any kind of person of interest for the government, handing over data in this way could still be quite dangerous. Phones will often contain data that can facilitate theft and fraud if ending up in the wrong hands. If they're able to copy everything, including private data from all apps that could be quite bad. For example many countries now use apps to log…

Why the hell would anybody sane, especially with all knowledge average HN user has about government overreach and greed, hacks, 0days, bugs etc. ever put such a critical item as banking app on their phone? Apple vs Android is irrelevant in this, there is no truly safe mainstream phone in 2022, period. Are people really that lazy? I do manage quite a few financial things but for none of those phone apps is crucial and…

> ever put such a critical item as banking app on their phone?

Laziness has nothing to do with it.

Why? Three of my bank accounts cannot be accessed without a phone app, and some of my credit cards will not authorise payments without a phone app. It's not a choice.

Two of the bank accounts do have web banking too, i.e. from a desktop browser. But you have to use the phone app to authenticate the browser login! I found this out the hard way, when my phone screen died so I couldn't login to web banking on my laptop.

I called customer support, hoping to use phone banking to make some payments. They told me they could not do anything until I obtained a new working phone, moved my SIM or phone number over, and then they could transfer the authentication to the new device. Other than that, they had no options for logging in. It was fine to borrow someone else's phone if I wanted, installing the bank app on there, but I couldn't login without a phone.

I had to go through this again when the second phone died a few months later.

Now, I'm guessing you're thinking "use a different bank, duh!". Turns out I didn't have a choice of non-app banks when I needed to open a business account during the pandemic, in order to accept a contract, which I needed. My credit rating was not rosy either, greatly limiting which card services I could choose. Things are easier now, thanks.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#442

Post by heavyset_go »

macrolime wrote: post #227

Even if you are a person who will never in your life end up as any kind of person of interest for the government, handing over data in this way could still be quite dangerous. Phones will often contain data that can facilitate theft and fraud if ending up in the wrong hands. If they're able to copy everything, including private data from all apps that could be quite bad. For example many countries now use apps to log…

> Will it ever be found out if one of the 3000 government officials with access to this data sold it on darknet markets?

It's not just government officials with access, but government contractors and anyone that works for them, as well.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#443

Post by rrauenza »

churchill wrote: post #394
jjtheblunt wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to some account in Nigeria. It must be awkward to be an honest Nigerian on Hacker News, since the country is famous for obvious online scams.

Nigerian here. At some point it gets old and you just get used to it.

Have you seen the YouTube channel “Pleasant Green”? He is a scam baiter but has been working with some of the Nigerian scammers to turn their lives around.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#444

Post by gmadsen »

randomdata wrote: post #423
gmadsen wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

im not sure what definition you are using, the executive is nearly 80, the average age of congress is 60, average age of CEOs is 58. You know, the people with actual power. These are not millennial ages..

The civil servant representatives may be older, but they don’t hold the power. They are hired by the power to serve the power. Again , we are talking about the power, not those who the power has delegated some work to.

Again? No, you obviously have a different definition of power, one that is abstract and in practicality useless. I'm trying not to be disparaging, but your comment is so absurd that I can't think of any situation where it would be appropriate outside of a college freshman poly sci class.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#445

Post by ch4s3 »

lisper wrote: post #356
MockObject wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I didn't have any problem understanding it at all, when I first read it.

So? Just because one person professes to have no trouble understanding something doesn't mean it was clear. Maybe you have unusual powers of comprehension. Maybe you understood it because the tacit assumptions happened to align with your prejudices. Maybe you are rewriting the past [1] to save face. Your testimony in this regard doesn't really inform the discussion. [1] https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2014/02/h…

I thought it was clear what I meant, but could see how there might be ambiguity.

To be perfectly clear I do not think qualified immunity should exist and that courts are too quick to rubber stamp warrants. Also most non-violent crimes shouldn’t be crimes IMO. That said, in many year of following the topic I don’t know of anyone being killed while refusing a search in a Terry Stop or an officer requesting entry to a home. Most police killings conform to a few narrow sets of common circumstances, that deserve a LOT of scrutiny but never seem to involve a warrantless search.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#446

Post by notch656a »

toss1 wrote: post #432
throwawayacc2 wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to do that, we might as well simply declare anarchy, and let everyone deal with the criminals and warlords who will take over, and that's no exaggeration. Bruv … Honestly I can’t tell if you’re for real or no. You already did that! California. People robbing stores in broad daylight, nothing happens to them. Chicago. Do I need to say anything about that third world enclave? Bloody hell man, chaz. A lite…

Ha — right you are! It has already been tried, both the ages before govt, every time govt fell down, and in the case of San Francisco, just got way too lax. The idea that we can somehow get away without governance (or intelligence ops, or policing) is born completely of very high privilege — it completely assumes that all the things that the govt does just happen automatically. It is just like the idiot new manager w…

Believing government acts on your behalf reeks of 'very high privilege.' If you think shop-keeps won't protect their stores once the chains of SF/Cali government come off, I have a bridge to sell you.

Edit: thank you for spelling correction. Wreaks changed to reeks

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#447

Post by ch4s3 »

nemothekid wrote: post #346
ch4s3 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people have been killed by law enforcement for doing what you are suggesting. Can you cite any examples of this happening? I’m a pretty big policing reform person and follow this stuff closely and can’t think of a single case like this.

Wasn't this essentially what happened to Philando Castile? In his case he was even complying before he was shot, and the officer who shot him was acquitted.

I believe that was a traffic stop and the officer freaked out after Castile mentioned that he had a CC handgun. Clearly the officer fucked up and murdered an innocent man. However, I think that’s different in kind and circumstances from what I was asking about.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#448

Post by mrtesthah »

arkadiyt wrote: post #353
JustSomeNobody wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oof, what happens if your laptop dies and it's the pair?

- On step 11 you can choose to allow (or disallow) removing the profile with a password - Alternatively you can backup the pairing records from your laptop somewhere to be able to put them on a new laptop - Alternatively you can configure your iPhone to e.g. backup photos and so on to icloud, and then if you ever lose your laptop you can wipe your device and restore the data you chose to backup

Just a reminder that anything backed up to iCloud (besides iCloud Keychain) will be accessible to government authorities, including your iMessages.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#449

Post by notch656a »

justrudd wrote: post #437
phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This thread is confusing. Are you implying that Canada can't deny entry to Canada to an American? Canada denies entry to tons of Americans. Americans with a DUI on their record have trouble visiting Canada.

I believe what is being said is: If you are a citizen of the United States of America, and you are returning to the United States from a foreign country, Customs and Border Patrol are not allowed to deny you entry to the United States of America. Of course the caveats - if you, as the citizen, have an outstanding warrant, they can arrest you. They can take your electronics. They can delay you. They can put you in a r…

They (US CBP for US ciizen) have to let you in.

But they will lie to you and tell you they won't let you in.

They will also lie to you and tell you they have the power to cancel your passport.

I've had them pull both 'tricks' on me. Not a lot of people are well versed on their rights and without access to a lawyer it would be easy to believe a federal officer when they tell you these things. If you believe what a federal officer tells you, which is probably most Americans, being told you won't be let in unless you do X is going to be taken literally as 'unless I do X, I am denied entry to the country.' They will simply comply on the basis of a fraudulent lie, which I might add a material lie like this is a felony if a normal citizen says it to a federal agent.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#450

Post by Merad »

arkadiyt wrote: post #270

Reminder for the folks using iPhones, you can prevent law enforcement from doing this by "pair locking" your device: https://arkadiyt.com/2019/10/07/pair-locking-your-iphone-wit...

I guess you're just SOL if you don't own a Mac?
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