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US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

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Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#341

Post by notch656a »

Test0129 wrote: post #75
oneplane wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds great when typing it up on the internet in a comfortable chair, but when a few power hungry workers with guns are breathing down your neck in a small room you can't get out of, the rules aren't going to make you feel 'safe'.

That's why in fields where this isn't uncommon you drill and drill and drill your response until it becomes second nature. If you don't comply you are still an American citizen. CBP cannot deny you entry for any reason (yet). However, they can make your life hell for as long as legally possible. If you are prepared for that then you absolute can and should tell them to pound sand. Just like you should to the police.…

>If you are prepared for that then you absolute can and should tell them to pound sand. Just like you should to the police. But standing up for yourself has consequences you may not be prepared for. In both cases, CBP and police, you may be isolated from your loved ones, harassed, interrogated, etc in an attempt to make you crack.

I went through the border without a phone or anything of interest for them to search. They cuffed and shackled me, finger printed me, booked me, tossed me in a cell. Then held me for 16 hours while driving me to hospitals and told doctors there was drugs up my ass. Towards the end they got a warrant to cover their ass, where they woke a federal judge and and the US assistant attorney in the middle of the night and told them vicious lies that a dog had 'alerted' on my asshole and that during a (real) invasive strip search they found (fake) evidence of smuggling.

[note: am US citizen]

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#342

Post by gmadsen »

randomdata wrote: post #314
stevehawk wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the millenials do not hold the power. They are not the blue badgers in the intelligence community that are making decisions.

The intelligence community only exists because those in power grant it so. The millennials hold the power. Certainly they delegate – there is only so much time in the day – but the outcome still rests on what lies at the top. The reality is that millennials, as a generation, don't see a problem with this. Select individuals may, but individuals don't hold power.

im not sure what definition you are using, the executive is nearly 80, the average age of congress is 60, average age of CEOs is 58. You know, the people with actual power.

These are not millennial ages..

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#343

Post by JustSomeNobody »

arkadiyt wrote: post #270

Reminder for the folks using iPhones, you can prevent law enforcement from doing this by "pair locking" your device: https://arkadiyt.com/2019/10/07/pair-locking-your-iphone-wit...

Oof, what happens if your laptop dies and it's the pair?

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#344

Post by engineer_22 »

pydry wrote: post #22
engineer_22 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's tiring that "national security" is thrown around to justify stonewalling. Does anyone audit the "national security" excuse? An Ombudsman? Where does policing end and national security begin? Oh well, I'll buy a thin-blue-line flag for my lawn and sleep easy, trust the good-guys.

Did this ever not happen? To fight these people you have to be some combination of powerful, morally spotless and willing to make great personal sacrifices - like Chelsea Manning.

The last 3 words were so unexpected...

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#345

Post by jonny_eh »

mauvehaus wrote: post #310
browningstreet wrote: post #207

On my last trip back from Europe in June, when I re-entered the US, US Customs & Border Control didn't ask for my passport. No one did. They did wave a webcam connected to a computer in front of my face, and then a moment later, called out my name and said I could enter. Same with everyone coming through the international border area. I think that's just as weird a development and worthy of "WTH?" as this topic.

BOS got unstaffed camera kiosks some years back, and being the wise-ass I am, I made a funny face for the camera, figuring the picture would end up stored for all eternity on a computer, never having been seen by human eyes. At that point in time, they were still having humans in the loop, and I got a different kind of funny look from the customs or immigration person I spoke to some minutes later. I got a third kind…

Never have fun with border control. Know your audience.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#346

Post by nemothekid »

ch4s3 wrote: post #145
xnyan wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Right, same as a police officer who asks if they can "look around" or "ask a few questions". ...But in general you'd be a fool to do so, and you also may say "no" This is not only a very naive take, its a dangerous one - people have been killed by law enforcement for doing what you are suggesting. Law Enforcement Officers in the US has what is known as qualified immunity. In practice qualified immunity means as long…

> people have been killed by law enforcement for doing what you are suggesting. Can you cite any examples of this happening? I’m a pretty big policing reform person and follow this stuff closely and can’t think of a single case like this.

Wasn't this essentially what happened to Philando Castile? In his case he was even complying before he was shot, and the officer who shot him was acquitted.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#347

Post by woodruffw »

goodpoint wrote: post #271
woodruffw wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Any malicious person savvy enough to pull off a crime of interest to the Feds is smart enough to provide a wiped or burner phone to DHS/ICE, and they have to know this. So, what is the point in doing this if not to target law abiding citizens. This isn't even remotely true. See for example the recent Anom honeypot[1]. Criminals do more or less the same things that ordinary citizens do, and often have strictly wo…

> Criminals do more or less the same things that ordinary citizens do, and often have strictly worse security practices because they believe "ordinary" things are weaker This is a "survivor" bias fallacy.

The null hypothesis is that criminals are humans like us, except that they make money through crime instead of legal employment. Fallacious reasoning here would require us to treat criminals as uniquely invisible or otherwise unlike other humans, which isn't really borne out.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#348

Post by notch656a »

JohnFen wrote: post #334
Bakary wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just a burner with plausible activity stored on it to give the impression that it's your main phone.

Why even bother with plausible activity? Just don't have your real phone with you at all. You can't produce what's not in your possession.

"Oh you have no phone and nothing to search? There must be drugs up your asshole"

My true story as a US citizen re-entering America. Enjoy!

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#349

Post by jonny_eh »

MerelyMortal wrote: post #296
jdeibele wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One approach would be to upload everything, wipe the phone, then log back in but not connect to iCloud (or Google). Once you've cleared the border, go to a coffee shop and download over their WiFi. Or not, if you're on a unlimited data plan. That has the advantage of requiring only one phone but would definitely look like you were hiding something. So your approach of a travel phone is better.

That won't prevent anything if they install malware that persists after a factory reset.

Is that possible with any recent phone?

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#350

Post by gmadsen »

woodruffw wrote: post #340
gmadsen wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its really not though. Look up estimates of dark net economies. Obviously there is plenty of criminals not getting caught

Of course there are. I said that in the last comment. There are two points here: * Estimates of "darknet" economies (and "criminal" economies in general) strongly express preferences for the mostly unfalsifiable LEO hypothesis that there's lots of crime just floating around out there , and they could do so much more about it if we just put up with a little more surveillance, etc. * There's no particular evidence that…

there is without a doubt a correlation between the significance of criminal enterprise and the rate of getting caught.

they may be catching some low level movers with these practices, but not much else above that. The evidence is that there is functioning enterprises in the first place. If captures at the border were a normal distribution of all criminal competency.. that would be destabilizing to a trillion dollar industry.

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