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Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

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Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#151
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were overhiring. I talked to their recruiter last year. They had pretty aggressive hiring goals. Same story with Zillow, Upstart, Facebook and a bunch of companies. All of their stocks tanked by more than 50% since then.

Why would a business even have a "hiring goal?" Shouldn't you have business goals, and then look at those business goals and determine if hiring will contribute to them? Having an isolated "hiring goal" seems as pointless as having a "printer buying goal".

Hiring people so that your competition can't is a business tactic, not a smart one going into a recession, but worked for decades for FAANG

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#152

(I am a black man) I feel like the statement that the layoffs "were carried out through an Anti-Racist/Anti-Oppression lens" puts a target on the backs of the people who you claim to be helping. If you're affected by layoffs described this way, you then question whether that was because of who you are. That then makes it harder for the minorities you claim to be "helping" to stay in the room anywhere else because of…

I don't get why they had to make that public statement in the first place. They could have kept that to themselves and complete the layoff just fine without the inflammatory statements, while still practicing whatever fashionable principles they choose. Is this a way to signal piety to the tech community in the hopes that more people aligned with those politics will apply there in the future?

I think your religious metaphor is exactly on point and it makes perfect sense if you take it seriously. Why do Christian companies talk about God when they make business decisions? They're not implementing some complex sociopolitical strategy, they just think God is important so they like to spread His message whenever they get the opportunity. It's the same phenomenon.

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there are zero barriers "in front" of minorities in the states, only advantages. There is no institutional discrimination against minorities, only against the now-majority, soon-to-be minority.

If we look at a 1 year old black child, and a 1 year old while child, the average household wealth of the white child is around 10x higher. What did the white child do to deserve this? How much better could they possibly be at drooling and crawling to have so much more wealth available to them? So I guess your belief is that household wealth has no impact on children?

>What did the white child do to deserve this?

Ah, the fallacy that everything you receive from your ancestors is undeserved. Will we be doing race-based asset appropriation tomorrow, comrade?

I think I'm not interested in discussing this with someone holding such a position which I consider completely deluded.

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I wonder what race they deliberately targeted for these layoffs, with language like that. What if, the meaning of “anti-racist” layoffs, is to fire all races equally?

That's still racist!! The only way for it not being racist is not having anything to do with race at all!

+1. Race shouldn't be brought up in (or factored into) layoffs.

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#155

(I am a black man) I feel like the statement that the layoffs "were carried out through an Anti-Racist/Anti-Oppression lens" puts a target on the backs of the people who you claim to be helping. If you're affected by layoffs described this way, you then question whether that was because of who you are. That then makes it harder for the minorities you claim to be "helping" to stay in the room anywhere else because of…

This creates three problems. The first is that some white people who were affected will believe it was because of their race. The second is that minorities who were not affected may be assumed to have been kept because of their minority status. But the most harmful is for minorities who were laid off. That signals that they were really subpar, even more than the average laid off person. It seems like this policy has…

However, it avoids a perception problem which may be far worse: the hypothetical perception that the people drawing up the layoffs were racist and that they disproportionately affected minorities. They wrote "Layoffs like this can have a more pronounced impact on marginalized communities, so we were particularly focused.." on making sure they did not.

If they ignored race entirely, and just laid off people at random, there's a chance that someone later would say "Twilio employees are 35% female, 33% Asian, 9% Latino, and 6% Black, but the laid-off employees were 11% Latino! Racism!" and turn a mob against them. Once the media/Twitter/mob believe that Twilio HR and Twilio executives are racist, those execs might try to defend themselves by saying: "We weighted based on performance reviews, added a bit of statistical noise, and then did a random selection. We believe those performance reviews to be objective and free of racial bias. We didn't even realize that Latinos were slightly over-represented in the layoffs until you mentioned it, but it looks to be merely statistical chance. We actually fired slightly more white people and more men than the statistics would suggest, we're not bigots."

...Do you think that would work?

It's far easier to defend against the accusation of being overly woke than it is to defend against the accusation of being racist, so while you'd rather be neither, it's better to overtly and publicly fail in the safer direction.

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#156
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have been pushing "anti-racism" hard, which sounds nice on the surface but when you dig into critical race theory where its coming from it's a dog whistle for hating white people, basically. Now I know this is super trendy right now but I don't want to get emails from your organization about how woke and bigoted you are. Just sell me the damn SaaS tool we signed up for and keep your politics to yourself. We move…

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Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll believe this was actually racially blind when Twilio releases a count of each race that was laid off, and the sum of each race for employees in the company prior to the layoff. It's very simple for everyone to verify whether there was racial targeting outside the statistically probable bounds of random selection from the parent group. I have no problem with people being woke as long as we're both working towards…

Please enumerate all the races first and the criteria to distinguish each race from the other. It will be important for your statistical analysis.

Let's just use hexadecimal RGB values for skin color.

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have no idea what it means and you can rationalize it all you like. Quota or not they likely fired a white person instead of a another person because of their skin color. Or it’s just cheap talk and means nothing, those are the only two options.

You say yourself we have no idea what it means but make a proposition on the meaning - why is your guess any more valid?

We don't know the implementation details (e.g. quota v not) but the net impact of an "anti-racist" process to ID layoff candidates v. a race-blind best-for-company process is either laying off white people due to their skin color or it's toothless BS.

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#159

Anyone else read the letter from the CEO where they claim that the layoffs "were carried out through an Anti-Racist/Anti-Oppression lens"? That's verbatim from the actual PDF, in case anyone was curious ( https://d18rn0p25nwr6d.cloudfront.net/CIK-0001447669/5c6aa73... ) Page 6, under the heading "How did we decide which roles would be impacted". I wonder what race they deliberately targeted for these layoffs, with la…

I consider myself very ‘liberal’ per American standards (pro abortion, pro lgbt rights, pro racial diversity and acceptance), and this to me screams of woke culture gone wild. Looks like anything can be weaponised.

Agreed. I don't consider myself to have moved politically right at all, but progressives are moving drastically left. Stuff like this, and the modern gender politics that is resulting in the erasure of women and lesbians in particular, has resulted in me no longer referring to myself as a leftist.

Re: Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we look at a 1 year old black child, and a 1 year old while child, the average household wealth of the white child is around 10x higher. What did the white child do to deserve this? How much better could they possibly be at drooling and crawling to have so much more wealth available to them? So I guess your belief is that household wealth has no impact on children?

>What did the white child do to deserve this? Ah, the fallacy that everything you receive from your ancestors is undeserved. Will we be doing race-based asset appropriation tomorrow, comrade? I think I'm not interested in discussing this with someone holding such a position which I consider completely deluded.

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