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Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

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121–130 of 175 posts

Re: Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where on earth do you get 12 kg watermelons? Genuine curious, the ones imported here in Denmark I would guess are big if they're around 3 kg.

Warmer countries. E.g. in Italy the common water melons are at least half a meter long.

The same in Portugal. Ours can be very big.

Re: Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

#122

Lithium battery fire cannot be 'put out'- in a normal sense. A fuel tank of petrol needs oxygen to burn, and when you spray foam on it your cut off the oxygen and the fire stops. A battery already contains energy, all the chemicals required for the reaction are already present, and once the energy release starts, sealing it from the environment does not stop the process. Ebike and drone batteries are large enough to…

>Ebike and drone batteries are large enough to be properly dangerous and fire departments make noises about them but offer no solutions. A suitable fireproof containment bag + fire-resistant gloves is about $1200 AUD (Brimstone Preventer [1], but I'm sure alternatives are available. This one is small phone/tablet sized and rated for 10k mAh). But most people won't purchase a >A fire extinguisher large enough for a 50…

Yes, proper ones are super-expensive. I’ve seen people also use ammo cases with vents cut out, but those won’t stop gases and might actually inadvertently function as a flame thrower.

Re: Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

#123
post #24

Why on earth do you move 28 tonnes of cement from southern England to the US to put out a fire! I am of course joking - badly. Portland is in Dorset (UK) and is where the eponymous stuff was first extracted along with stone. This is a novel way to put out fires but a logical one if the temperatures are right. Conc can burn if it's too hot - and it sets/cures with an exothermic reaction. That's why you have to pour it…

Portland cement isn't called Portland cement because it comes from Portland. It is called that because when set it looks like the stone that could be quarried from Portland. It wasn't originally extracted from Portland.

Re: Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

#124
post #63
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often wonder about this while hiking or riding my dirt bike out on the trails. Gas powered dirt bikes are prohibited almost everywhere due to risk of fire and chemical contamination. However, more and more I am seeing e-bikes ripping around on hiking trails that would get me and my dirt bikes a hefty fine and impound. The risk of fire and contamination is practically the same. And these e-bikes are typically driven…

It's my understanding that e-bikes which can ride on traditional "bike" trails (I'm used to this rule for bike lanes ) are limited to a relatively human-accessible speed, usually 15 or 20 mph in the US. Are these e-bike riders going faster than that? If so, they might be breaking the law. I had assumed dirt bikes were banned on these trails due to weight and speed, leading to damage to the trail, risks to other trail…

There are many people bypassing the limit using hacks or on some cheap chinese kits just by going in the settings (usually a button combo, knowledge widely available on the internet).

Yes it is illegal but in the same way the 50cc mopeds are supposed to be limited at 45kph (27mph) and all the kids always modified them to go faster. I believe there has always been more unrestricted 50cc mopeds than legal ones in the street. Only some old people kept them restricted.

Most people are willing to take the risk of not getting insurance coverage and a fine once in a while to gain a few minutes per day and be the king of the road. Most only have third party insurance anyway and a bicycle or a moped don't usually create that much physical damage to other vehicules. It only becomes ugly when people hit pedestrians but thankfully and for obvious reasons it is a much rarer event than car drivers doing it.

Re: Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

#125
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was thought by some that the core fire was extinguished by a combined effort of helicopters dropping more than 5,000 tonnes (11 million pounds) of sand, lead, clay, and neutron-absorbing boron onto the burning reactor. It is now known that virtually none of these materials reached the core. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster

Sure can't put out a nuclear fire but the effort did do a lot to minimize burning radioactive carbon from getting out beyond the site. Its all they really could do. I was wondering why more cities don't try smothering battery fires with sand.

> I was wondering why more cities don't try smothering battery fires with sand.

Because it is much more annoying to clean the street afterwards than foam and water.

Re: Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

#126
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Warmer countries. E.g. in Italy the common water melons are at least half a meter long.

The same in Portugal. Ours can be very big.

I guess we can conclude a watermelon is a really bad weight reference unit!

Re: Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

#127
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

12kg is like a two year old child or a small-to-medium sized dog.

Yes. 12kg shouldn't be much of a problem for most people, if the weight comes in the shape of a dumbbell and stuff ain't on fire. But wielding a toddler-sized implement awkwardly in front of a fire while you are a bit panicking yourself, might be a struggle for many people. Especially since you probably never practiced this, and you might even have to hold the thing one-handed, so you can aim with the other hand

When you get to 12kg it usually mean a cylinder and a hose. You have the cylinder with handle in one hand and the hose in other.

Re: Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

#128

This was in 2021; it appears the fire was extinguished by July 11 [1], investigated by Vice later that year [2], and seems to still be being cleaned up by US EPA [3]. 1. https://www.ehs.com/2021/07/morris-lithium-battery-fire-high... 2. https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7vj73/everyone-thought-the-... 3. https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-resumes-cleanup-hazardo...

What chemicals are in lithium batteries that are toxic? I was under the impression that while lithium batteries were dangerous due to explosion/flame risk, the actual ingredients weren't particularly toxic?

It doesn't take much for something to be toxic to soil, wildlife, &c.

> Lithium batteries contain potentially toxic materials including metals, such as copper, nickel, and lead, and organic chemicals, such as toxic and flammable electrolytes containing LiClO4, LiBF4, and LiPF6.

Also, from the article:

> an estimated 180,000 to 200,000 pounds of lithium ion batteries stored in the warehouse caught fire,

Almost anything human made burning at that scale will be toxic to some degree, lithium batteries aren't made of flower petals and lavender essential oil. Have you ever had a battery fire in your house ? It's nasty as fuck, even from a single small phone battery

Re: Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

#129

Lithium battery fire cannot be 'put out'- in a normal sense. A fuel tank of petrol needs oxygen to burn, and when you spray foam on it your cut off the oxygen and the fire stops. A battery already contains energy, all the chemicals required for the reaction are already present, and once the energy release starts, sealing it from the environment does not stop the process. Ebike and drone batteries are large enough to…

>Ebike and drone batteries are large enough to be properly dangerous and fire departments make noises about them but offer no solutions. A suitable fireproof containment bag + fire-resistant gloves is about $1200 AUD (Brimstone Preventer [1], but I'm sure alternatives are available. This one is small phone/tablet sized and rated for 10k mAh). But most people won't purchase a >A fire extinguisher large enough for a 50…

The standard weight (derived by US NIOSH studies) that can be lifted in workplaces is 30 kg, hence most heavy packages are 25 kg (think of a bag of cement/plaster/etc.) in most EU, see:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31465982

Re: Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

#130
post #60

Lithium battery fire cannot be 'put out'- in a normal sense. A fuel tank of petrol needs oxygen to burn, and when you spray foam on it your cut off the oxygen and the fire stops. A battery already contains energy, all the chemicals required for the reaction are already present, and once the energy release starts, sealing it from the environment does not stop the process. Ebike and drone batteries are large enough to…

I often wonder about this while hiking or riding my dirt bike out on the trails. Gas powered dirt bikes are prohibited almost everywhere due to risk of fire and chemical contamination. However, more and more I am seeing e-bikes ripping around on hiking trails that would get me and my dirt bikes a hefty fine and impound. The risk of fire and contamination is practically the same. And these e-bikes are typically driven…

> Gas powered dirt bikes are prohibited almost everywhere due to risk of fire and chemical contamination.

All gas powered bikes generate heat and pollution. (dry grass + hot pipes for example)

Only defective ebikes will generate heat and pollution

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