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Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

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Re: Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

#91

Post by staticautomatic »

elihu wrote: post #76
lazide wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The good news is, water is cold (generally), doesn't combust (generally), and there is a LOT of it. So spraying water, while it can make it spicier for a bit, allows you to suck away enough heat fast enough that it works okayish. It's the scalable, but not ideal, solution generally. Current guidance is don't bother with anything else, just spray it until the flames stop.

I've wondered if maybe it's possible to pack batteries with a relatively harmless material that undergoes a very energy-intensive phase change. Water's the obvious choice, but it tends to drain away rather than stick around long enough to turn to steam. Maybe there's a better material, or ways to design battery cooling systems so that a burning battery turns into a very efficient steam generator, and thus can be cool…

In buildings they call your hose idea a “standpipe”

Re: Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

#92

Post by raldi »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #19

Lithium battery fire cannot be 'put out'- in a normal sense. A fuel tank of petrol needs oxygen to burn, and when you spray foam on it your cut off the oxygen and the fire stops. A battery already contains energy, all the chemicals required for the reaction are already present, and once the energy release starts, sealing it from the environment does not stop the process. Ebike and drone batteries are large enough to…

12kg is 26 pounds. Most people can hold a bowling ball, which weights about half that, in one hand without too much difficulty.

Re: Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

#93

Post by mschuster91 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #19

Lithium battery fire cannot be 'put out'- in a normal sense. A fuel tank of petrol needs oxygen to burn, and when you spray foam on it your cut off the oxygen and the fire stops. A battery already contains energy, all the chemicals required for the reaction are already present, and once the energy release starts, sealing it from the environment does not stop the process. Ebike and drone batteries are large enough to…

In doubt, take two metal buckets, fill both of them half with sand, and when a lithium device starts smoking put it in one bucket and smother it with sand, or at least place the charger in the bucket. Friend of mine does that with e-cigarette batteries.

Re: Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

#94

Post by rzzzt »

p1mrx wrote: post #89
almost_usual wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big earthquake implies things like UMBs collapsing.

What are UMBs?

Upper Memory Blocks, the area between the 640 KiB and 1 MiB range that becomes available on 286+ machines in real mode once the A20 address line is no longer held low by the keyboard controller.

Re: Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

#96

Post by maxbond »

turtlebits wrote: post #84
nomel wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a physical kind of easy, and there's a financial kind of easy. I've noticed they're usually at odds with each other.

It's not especially expensive. I paid around $1800 to remove and dump 30 ecology blocks (weigh around 2 tons each). If you do it yourself, a 10 ton excavator will cost around $500 to rent for the day.

Presumably there will also be significant containment considerations. Once you've busted it open and exposed the material to weathering, you need to have already put some plan in place that will stop it from contaminating the ground water.

Re: Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

#98

Post by baq »

filmor wrote: post #79
bri3d wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-09784-z Many batteries have LiPF6 electrolytes, so HF is the big one when they combust. And of course the most famous and common battery chemistry is still LiCo - so you've got Lithium salts and Cobalt, which you don't love to see get in ground water. They're not too bad when they don't burn, but once they've burned, all bets are off - there are a lot of nasty byproducts.

LiPF6 = lithium hexafluorophosphate HF = hydrogen flouride

> HF = hydrogen flouride

otherwise known as hydroflouric acid. nasty stuff indeed:

> In addition to being a highly corrosive liquid, hydrofluoric acid is also a powerful contact poison. Because of the ability of hydrofluoric acid to penetrate tissue, poisoning can occur readily through exposure of skin or eyes, or when inhaled or swallowed. Symptoms of exposure to hydrofluoric acid may not be immediately evident, and this can provide false reassurance to victims, causing them to delay medical treatment.[24] Despite having an irritating odor, HF may reach dangerous levels without an obvious odor.[5] HF interferes with nerve function, meaning that burns may not initially be painful. Accidental exposures can go unnoticed, delaying treatment and increasing the extent and seriousness of the injury.[24] Symptoms of HF exposure include irritation of the eyes, skin, nose, and throat, eye and skin burns, rhinitis, bronchitis, pulmonary edema (fluid buildup in the lungs), and bone damage.[25]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoric_acid#Health_and_s...

Re: Li-ion battery warehouse fire put out with Portland cement (2021)

#99

Post by spyke112 »

chmod775 wrote: post #75
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #19

Lithium battery fire cannot be 'put out'- in a normal sense. A fuel tank of petrol needs oxygen to burn, and when you spray foam on it your cut off the oxygen and the fire stops. A battery already contains energy, all the chemicals required for the reaction are already present, and once the energy release starts, sealing it from the environment does not stop the process. Ebike and drone batteries are large enough to…

> A fire extinguisher large enough for a 500wh battery weighs 12 kilos - most people can barely lift that! Almost everyone can lift that overhead . 90% of men and more than 50% of women can lift a bit more than twice that overhead. It's a common job requirement. There would have to be something really wrong for an adult to struggle lifting 12kg. That's a large watermelon, and unlike the melon, the fire extinguisher g…

Where on earth do you get 12 kg watermelons? Genuine curious, the ones imported here in Denmark I would guess are big if they're around 3 kg.
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