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Who cares about diversity?

fakenous.substack.com

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Re: Who cares about diversity?

#471

Post by [deleted] »

hintymad wrote: post #226
littlelamb wrote: post #88

I am absolutely all in for equality, but definitely strongly against equity. When I get HR try to shove a resume down my throat because it ticks all of their boxes despite having none of the boxes to be succesful on the job, that is when I draw the line. I don't care if you're white, black, purple or green, and whether you fuck men, women, all of them or none of them is none of my business. At the end of the day I wa…

I don't understand how sex orientation plays a pivotal role in job performance. Oh well, that thought alone puts me in alt-right group, I guess.

[deleted]

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#472

Post by neotrope »

gnull wrote: post #349
jedberg wrote: post #180

So here's where I'm stuck: On the one hand I totally understand the objections to categorizing people based on things that won't affect their job performance per se -- skin color, gender, who they are attracted to, etc. But on the other hand, those people have been systematically discriminated against, well, forever. So the question is, where should the fix be applied? If the only people who have the skills to do the…

> But that will take decades. What do we do until then? We wait. I don't understand why people want these issues to be resolved here and now. Society and culture take decades to change, that's natural, and shortcuts—however tempting they might be—often come at a cost of something else. The conditions of these oppressed groups are not terribly bad, compared to what was going on with people in general throughout histor…

We already know this isn't going to work. Culture is the driving force that elevates people. If you didn't grow up in a broken home, were encouraged and supported in your education and pushed to make the rights choices in life, you grew up in a winning culture.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#473

Post by croes »

beej71 wrote: post #466
vlod wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understand this argument. Wouldn't market forces, i.e. capitalism, gekko's greed-is-good argument fix this? If there were a group of basketball players with blue eyes (that were the best in the world), wouldn't someone see the huge money potential and create a team full of blue-eyes and win the title/cup/trophy?

Maybe in many decades after the anti-blue-eye bias had been successfully mitigated such a team would be formed. But until then, money and winning is not enough. Bias is stronger than capitalism. Some people willingly give up money to not serve gay people, for example.

Exactly, people don't act always rationally, they sometimes even act against their own interests.

Homo oeconomicus is a myth.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#474

Post by actually_a_dog »

zozbot234 wrote: post #64
ryeguy_24 wrote: post #54

Isn't the real issue behind all the names (diversity, inclusion, etc) about the equalizing of opportunity or at the very least, bringing certain oppressed groups (and, if you don't think certain groups are or have been oppressed or discriminated against, educate yourself) up the opportunity curve? Do we want to live in a world where you have less opportunity because of characteristics you were born with?

Well, the OP is describing a case where you might meaningfully have more or less opportunity depending on your expressed stance in matters unrelated to actual job duties - viz., your expressing support for diversity ideology, as evidenced in a "diversity impact statement". So this is basically compelled speech and/or discrimination based on ideology, which is a very real kind of oppression.

You fail to consider here that the persons so "oppressed" are actually those who would be in positions of power.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#475

Post by cryptonector »

deathanatos wrote: post #131

I'd love to see incentives to help level the playing field for people who come from impoverished backgrounds. But instead, what we get, and what people seem to clamor most loudly for, is what a former employer of mine had: "hiring bonus if the candidate isn't white or male" (and at one point, all I could hire was non-white or non-male, and the way it was spun was "we are in a hiring freeze, except for diversity hires…

Is it legal to have hiring bonuses for candidates (or for hiring them), where the bonus is based on attributes of the candidate on the basis of which it is normally not permissible to discriminate?

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#476

Post by abnercoimbre »

tptacek wrote: post #332
matthewrobertso wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you highlight where you made that argument the first time? I read your first comment as entirely concerned with tone and don't see where you are discussing lack of engagement with an argument.

It's a 127 word comment (not counting the snarky aside at the bottom), of which approximately 40% of the words make the points you're looking for directly, in a pair of sentences, one in the first paragraph and one in the second. I think you might have to not want to see them not to see them.

Tried my best, not seeing it either.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#477

Post by origin_path »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #72
origin_path wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> The article is an essay that starts by citing Supreme Court case law Wrong. First 3 sentences: > All across the Academy, schools are requiring “Diversity Statements” as a condition for new hires. Everyone has to submit a statement explaining how they are going to contribute to “diversity”. What you’re supposed to do in these, and what everyone damn well knows you’re supposed to do, is (i) talk about your race, gend…

So you stopped reading after three sentences, right.

And no, the section you quoted is not "subjective and emotionally driven flamebait", that's the exact sort of tactics I'm talking about. The existence of this practice is widely reported - objective - and if you are really willing to argue that the suggested responses are not what you're meant to write about then go ahead and argue that.

You can't because the true situation is plain to see, so instead throw tantrums to try and stop other people discussing the extremely important debasement of universities. There is nothing "flamebait" about raising the alarm about real problems in the world.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#478

Post by origin_path »

api wrote: post #371
scifibestfi wrote: post #188

In 2018 The Atlantic explained this phenomenon, what the utility is, and correctly posited that it would not likely go away. TLDR; Status games and intra-elite jockeying among the overproduced elite. "Think about what it takes to claw your way into America’s elite strata. Unless you were born into the upper-middle class, your surest route is to pursue an elite education. To do that, it pays to be exquisitely sensitiv…

This suggests that if we got rid of this rhetoric something else would take its place as it fills a kind of market niche. There's a limited amount of space in elite institutions and thus fierce competition over the right to obtain these degrees, which have become (in some circles) the modern equivalent of writs of noble title. This creates demand for mechanisms that can be used to signal and play status games. Also s…

There was no equivalent a few generations ago because hardly anyone went to university at all.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#479

Post by actually_a_dog »

lazyeye wrote: post #308
blakesley wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but it can also be true that there are so many things wrong with the points being made that it's hard to construct a response.

I would have thought this would make it easy to construct a response.

See the "bullshit asymmetry principle": refuting bullshit takes far more time and effort than producing it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#480

Post by origin_path »

rootusrootus wrote: post #57
origin_path wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

It's been falling steadily over time. Left wing bias in universities was far less extreme in the 60s. Given the prevalence of articles by conservatives saying they were kicked out for ideological reasons, and that this article is about the practice of forcing applicants to write a loyalty pledge to leftist dogma, it is safe to assume that this decline was largely a deliberate takeover by people who devoted themselves to excluding others over a long period of many decades.
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