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Who cares about diversity?

fakenous.substack.com

61–70 of 536 posts

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#61
> Of course, none of the above predictions are borne out: the current practice of affirmative action has none of these features that you would expect if its proponents actually valued diversity. Conclusion: By and large, they don’t care about diversity.

Another variation of this that I always hear is "everyone wants diversity but sucks at inclusion", which is slightly different (main article says they don't actually want diversity).

Need to give this a closer re-read but my instinct is that people do actually want diversity and aren't good at making it happen; but it could be a mix of everything where they use it for the social karma and secretly don't

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#62
post #3

How wide spread is this requirement? I've never heard about it before. >schools are requiring “Diversity Statements” as a condition for new hires Is this like when you do a self performance review and you just throw in a bunch of common phrases / text?

I've seen it for a university position in Sweden. It has a self-criticism and cult like feel that I really don't like. Position in universities should be considered on scientific and educational grounds, not political.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#63
For an example of this, see this story about Canadian professor and laser scientist Patanjali Kambhampati who was denied for grants because his avowed commitment to mere non-discrimination and merit-based hiring was deemed insufficient.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/minority-professor-deni...

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#64

Isn't the real issue behind all the names (diversity, inclusion, etc) about the equalizing of opportunity or at the very least, bringing certain oppressed groups (and, if you don't think certain groups are or have been oppressed or discriminated against, educate yourself) up the opportunity curve? Do we want to live in a world where you have less opportunity because of characteristics you were born with?

Well, the OP is describing a case where you might meaningfully have more or less opportunity depending on your expressed stance in matters unrelated to actual job duties - viz., your expressing support for diversity ideology, as evidenced in a "diversity impact statement". So this is basically compelled speech and/or discrimination based on ideology, which is a very real kind of oppression.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#65

Isn't the real issue behind all the names (diversity, inclusion, etc) about the equalizing of opportunity or at the very least, bringing certain oppressed groups (and, if you don't think certain groups are or have been oppressed or discriminated against, educate yourself) up the opportunity curve? Do we want to live in a world where you have less opportunity because of characteristics you were born with?

The rhetoric has shifted in recent years from “equality of opportunity” to “equity”, which is more about equality of outcome.

> Equality means each individual or group of people is given the same resources or opportunities. Equity recognizes that each person has different circumstances and allocates the exact resources and opportunities needed to reach an equal outcome.

https://onlinepublichealth.gwu.edu/resources/equity-vs-equal...

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#66
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you for real largest SV companies can't find a single "diverse" board member or C level but spend 100s of millions evangelizing how they care about diversity and on employee diversity training?

Is the hiring task SELECT TOP 1 * FROM Candidates WHERE DIVERSE = 1 ORDER BY Candidate_Value_All_Things_Considered DESC or SELECT TOP 1 * FROM Candidates ORDER BY Candidate_Value_All_Things_Considered DESC There could be valid reasons to employ either strategy, but I suspect most firms are trying to apply the second and your disbelief that the first query returns zero rows is more a mismatch with the firms' hiring st…

I am not suggesting they have to employee 1st or 2nd strategy. But if you do go with the 2nd don't go down the path of by-weekly employee diversity trainings and diversity being the corner stone of your "values" and communication strategy.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#67

I think these institutions believe that more diversity ----> more inclusivity and less racism. How would a racist indian national deeply entrenched in caste culture help my company be less racist? How would an asian supremacist laotian increase the workplace's acceptance? If you want a place of tolerance then it should be populated by tolerant people. Throwing together males and females with a random sample of skin c…

Most of the metrics that I have been judged by over the course of my career (e.g. lines of code, story point velocity, etc) are absolute bullshit, and easily manipulated. And yet... I continue to build "dashboards" for VP's to stare at, and continue to be measured by deeply flawed metrics.

I believe that every rational thinking person would agree that tracking racial and ethnic and sexual headcount percentages doesn't necessarily mean what they purport to mean. But... what are you gonna do? We just need metrics, any metrics. Bad metrics are better than no metrics, or at least this seems to be the deeply entrenched mindset of business.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#68

Isn't the real issue behind all the names (diversity, inclusion, etc) about the equalizing of opportunity or at the very least, bringing certain oppressed groups (and, if you don't think certain groups are or have been oppressed or discriminated against, educate yourself) up the opportunity curve? Do we want to live in a world where you have less opportunity because of characteristics you were born with?

Well, the OP is describing a case where you might meaningfully have more or less opportunity depending on your expressed stance in matters unrelated to actual job duties - viz., your expressing support for diversity ideology, as evidenced in a "diversity impact statement". So this is basically compelled speech and/or discrimination based on ideology, which is a very real kind of oppression.

Oh, maybe I misinterpreted. I have much less interest in that argument given that there are tons of pre-existing ideologies that could be discriminated against for a job. Right? If your ideology is "I think it's important to work as little as possible to maintain a job." I'd assume many employers would discriminate against hiring someone with that ideology, no? Apologies if I'm missing the key point again.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#69
Wow, flagged, killed, resurrected in a VERY short amount of time. This is spicy.

Diversity is a trope that I've yet to see any evidence for other than using it as a kudgel to force a single viewpoint on a bunch of people by threatening their salary.

To be clear, I'm not saying we shouldn't hire other races, or prefer one race above the other. But having been both in tech and university I can tell you by and large these programs are feel good and do almost nothing to forward their goal.

If the goal is to improve racial diversity, then you can do it trivially by simply selecting non-white races. This is, by definition, racist, but for some reason we've retermed this form of racism as "affirmative action". In a lot of sectors this ends up becoming a racial quota. Some tech companies even seem to gleefully promote it as such. These quotas do nothing to improve the bottom line or improve diversity. It feels more like revenge than progress and I don't think that's effective or sustainable.

If the goal is to improve ideological diversity then race shouldn't be controlled for. As the author rightly points out, a white person from a poor neighborhood will have a "more diverse" viewpoint than a black person from a middle class neighborhood. However, one may wonder how increased ideological diversity would help solve a problem in software that doesn't directly lean on one of those ideologies. There has never been a point in my decades long career as a backend engineer where my political/racial/religious identity ever influenced my code. I can say this with absolute certainty.

It feels like a sham to me. Suddenly in the last decade we've seen the marked rise of "diversity consultants" who by and large are simply diversity hustlers. This includes the new title "chief diversity officer" who, to this day, I am unsure what they even contribute in terms of driving profitability. Of course, these diversity hustlers will promote direct-action diversity efforts as the panacea to all of our sins because it's profitable to them. I have yet to see data that implies when controlling for education, race is a determining factor in ability. The idea itself seems false on its face but this is the exact idea they are promoting.

A business seeks first to optimize profit. Meritocracy is the single best way to insure this. If you wish to reduce hiring bias develop systems for double-blind reviews of candidates and compare results. These problems can be at least partially ameliorated with statistics. But instead, it seems we choose the most inefficient and outright questionably legal method instead. Promoting these ephemeral hard to measure metrics like "X has a more diverse opinion and is therefore better than Y " is just an end-around to bigotry at the corporate and university level. We can do better to fix hiring pipeline biases, etc, but this is not the way.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#70
post #65

Isn't the real issue behind all the names (diversity, inclusion, etc) about the equalizing of opportunity or at the very least, bringing certain oppressed groups (and, if you don't think certain groups are or have been oppressed or discriminated against, educate yourself) up the opportunity curve? Do we want to live in a world where you have less opportunity because of characteristics you were born with?

The rhetoric has shifted in recent years from “equality of opportunity” to “equity”, which is more about equality of outcome. > Equality means each individual or group of people is given the same resources or opportunities. Equity recognizes that each person has different circumstances and allocates the exact resources and opportunities needed to reach an equal outcome. https://onlinepublichealth.gwu.edu/resources/eq…

Do any companies subscribe to equity of outcome? I didn't think that was the intent of the word "equity". If that were the case, we wouldn't get promoted or bonuses based on our work, it would just be a timed schedule. I don't think that is what's going on.
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