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Who cares about diversity?

fakenous.substack.com

171–180 of 536 posts

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the point, "woke" gives garden variety nepotism a nice shiny ESG approved cover.

If we get rid of everything that some asshole can use as cover, there's not going to be a lot left.

I agree with everything stuckinhell said as she seems to have some first hand experience with this, but I'd like to add that frankly it's just disgusting to use things like civil rights as a corporate HR move. People marched and risked a lot of real things to achieve the rights that we all have today. Now "wokeness" (which used to be cool btw) has been co-opted by corporations and we all have to pretend that a company hiring an unqualified woman who happens to be related to someone on the C-suite is progress just because she's a woman.

It makes me sick, and I don't understand how anyone can defend this bullshit.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#172

I care about diversity. I've been a women in stem nearly my entire life (thanks dad!). However diversity quotas, esg scores, and all the manipulation in "diversity" and "woke" today is more about incompetent children of the rich who need fake jobs that make a lot of money. I've refused to hire an english major young woman on my development team even under extreme pressure from management because she's a women, but al…

I care about diversity, as I care in equality for all, I'm an egalitarian. However, I think perhaps we should make it more of a blind thing, where you don't get to see or know the person's race/gender etc. All applications come with a # and are essentially jane or john Doe's.

Then the only diversity they need worry about is income diversity, where they need to have equal #'s from extreme poverty as they have from extreme wealthy. Income does trend some in more diverse communities anyways, so it'll happen naturally that this will create more diversity, but it takes away some of the stigmas and angst around it because everyone being accepted is more of a number and acceptance is more based on their achievements etc..

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How would a racist indian national deeply entrenched in caste culture help my company be less racist? To be fair, there are many people from traditionally chauvinistic groups who despise the very chauvinism they live in. Many of them may be intelligent and productive people. Dismissing each and every individual because of the group is the root of discrimination. Some attempts at diversity may go too far - toleratin…

You can't meaningfully enforce open-mindedness or tolerance. The very idea is an oxymoron. The whole notion of tolerance is based on the idea that we might sometimes find it expedient to work alongside people we don't agree with about everything.

> The whole notion of tolerance is based on the idea that we might sometimes find it expedient to work alongside people we don't agree with about everything.

There's a difference between disagreeing about something in theory, and acting maliciously in order to exclude someone from your group because they disagree with you. As you said, the whole idea of tolerance boils down to tolerating disagreements. Someone who doesn't tolerate disagreements cannot work with others who do.

It's not agreement that must be enforced in order to have a tolerant society, it's tolerance to disagreement.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#174
Given the stark racial inequality we have today due to compounding wealth from centuries of colonialism and slavery, it seems diversity is the bare minimum we could do to address such a burden, and it's a shame that is even considered controversial. Is there an "unoffensive" solution to address this history or should we all just get along and pretend it didn't happen?

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#175

I think these institutions believe that more diversity ----> more inclusivity and less racism. How would a racist indian national deeply entrenched in caste culture help my company be less racist? How would an asian supremacist laotian increase the workplace's acceptance? If you want a place of tolerance then it should be populated by tolerant people. Throwing together males and females with a random sample of skin c…

We also need DEI at the border in addition to the colleges and for job opportunities. The way LatinX people are oppressed at the border is inhumane. Not to mention the trauma inflicted on LatinX people during last administration.

[deleted]

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#176
post #89

The whole blog is like this; it's all sort of comically smug "everybody else in the entire world is wrong, and here is a 7-point axiomatic derivation proving it"†, much of it depending on specific definitions of specific words. Check-mate, atheists! There are lots of good, sharp, critical things to say about the DEI movement, most especially "institutional" DEI, but you can't meaningfully say them when you write with…

This sounds like the kind of thing you say when you are annoyed but cant find a good argument against the points being made.

I'm trying to actually figure out what his points are. None of it is making much sense because he just seems so far off in his own thinking that it's not connected to DEI at all. Still trying to untangle it, but here's my lol as I work through what he's saying.

1.1 When did we start pretending to care about diversity?

He says 1978. What? He's fabricating a story to prop up his flawed belief system.

1.2 Diversity is intellectual?

It's good because it promotes a good education. What? It's far more about that: representation, opportunities for historically marginalized groups, challenging the status quo with ideas of how things should be done, etc.

2.1 The argument for affirmative action

How did we get to affirmative action? Are we back in the 1980's view of how we are supposed to level the playing field?

> by diversifying the racial composition of the student body, we will be indirectly producing intellectual diversity.

Yikes. He's totally missing the point around opportunities, exposure to diverse backgrounds that force you break out of your own stereotypical thinking...

2.2 Idealogy

> The most “woke” people are the ones who aggressively try to silence all dissent and to exclude conservatives, libertarians, etc., from the Academy.

This is a myth. Conservatives tend to get excluded because their whole goal is to exclude others based on their religion, their desire to prevent others from being able to become self actualized (ex against same sex marriage), their support for laws and institutions that maintain the status quo...

2.3 Other countries

> the most diverse people would naturally be those from other countries.

Yikes. He's totally gone off the rails now. Completely misses the point of what DEI is about.

2.4 Other races

> Affirmative action would also apply more strongly to, say, immigrants from Iran, or Korea, or Israel, than to black people (or anyone else) from our own society.

face palm that is just so painful to read. Yes, on the surface it's true, but not what DEI is actually trying to address in the US.

2.5 social class

> rural white people would get more affirmative action points than middle class suburban blacks.

lol this guy doesn't understand racism very well.

2.6 Proportionality

His point: you don't need a proportional representation for diversity.

And...? Not sure why this is even here. Seems pretty obvious.

2.7. Non of this is happening

> Conclusion: By and large, they don’t care about diversity. They’re just lying, in a really transparent way, because they think it gives them a patina of legal legitimacy.

lol my god how did we land here?

3. Conclusion

> “Diversity, inclusion, and equity” refers to ideological uniformity, exclusion, and discrimination.

Sigh. He really has no clue what he's writing about or how this works outside of his world view. I can't shake the feeling how sad I from having slogged through this. I'll chalk this up to being useless noise that's out of touch on what's going on in the larger world.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#177
post #3

How wide spread is this requirement? I've never heard about it before. >schools are requiring “Diversity Statements” as a condition for new hires Is this like when you do a self performance review and you just throw in a bunch of common phrases / text?

Yes. A previous boss of mine that I liked once asked me to just add some boilerplate phrases to my performance review to make sure he and I were both aligned with the corporate diversity mandates. Did I change the way I acted simply by adding this text? Nope!

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#178
post #89

The whole blog is like this; it's all sort of comically smug "everybody else in the entire world is wrong, and here is a 7-point axiomatic derivation proving it"†, much of it depending on specific definitions of specific words. Check-mate, atheists! There are lots of good, sharp, critical things to say about the DEI movement, most especially "institutional" DEI, but you can't meaningfully say them when you write with…

This tone is very common in academic philosophy. I would characterize it as being low in rhetoric and extremely blunt. I don't really see how it sounds like "a high school sophomore".

In general the argument template is "If you're not 100% committed to realizing a more extreme version of your mission statement than the status quo, then you're being hypocritical and cannot be taken seriously." We see the same thing pop up in, "You don't like capitalism, yet you still participate in it," and "You don't like cars, yet you still drive places." It's the sort of tired teenager type argument that doesn't seek to advance the discourse. It does nothing to convince anyone of anything and instead it exacerbates division. There's plenty of other better arguments to make and for some reason the author goes for this one.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#179
post #94

My problem with so-called diversity efforts is that they wildly overemphasize a really superficial attribute: skin color. That is, at best, a tenuous proxy for actual diversity and goes against decades of work of the U.S. civil rights movement. There are real benefits to having a diverse group of people in just about every setting, but assessing the level of diversity by noting the range of skin tones present is inef…

Exactly, what we should really be striving for is diverse life experience.

Having a bias towards people based on skin colour and gender alone is racist and sexist by definition.

If people really cared about diversity they'd ask you about your upbringing, your views on life and how you would bring diversity into the work place.

I know I've never been asked such a question during an interview...

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#180
So here's where I'm stuck: On the one hand I totally understand the objections to categorizing people based on things that won't affect their job performance per se -- skin color, gender, who they are attracted to, etc.

But on the other hand, those people have been systematically discriminated against, well, forever.

So the question is, where should the fix be applied? If the only people who have the skills to do the job you are hiring for are straight white men, because they are the only ones who had the opportunity to get the training, should we fix that at the hiring level?

The initial reaction is probably no, we should push that fix further down to make sure those people get the same chances as everyone else. But that will take decades. What do we do until then?

And there is another thing too -- you can't deny that a black woman has had a vastly difference life experience than a white man, even if those two people have all the same job relevant qualifications otherwise. And frankly I'd rather have the black woman on the team to offer that perspective, especially for product decisions, because they might have interesting things to say.

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