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Who cares about diversity?

fakenous.substack.com

281–290 of 536 posts

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This argument is written and reasoned like that of a high school sophomore" is, believe it or not, not an ad-hominem argument.

Nonetheless, critiquing the writing style rather than the substance makes it seem like you've lost the argument from the start.

They called the substance axiomatic and much of it depending on specific definitions of specific words.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Critiquing the style of a persuasive essay makes a lot of sense to me, however, because it accurately points out a flaw that will make it less successful according to this specific reader.

I'd suggest that if a reader is less successful at grasping the crux of an essay due solely to the writing style, that merely points out a failing of the reader. Digesting essays of varying styles is an important skill that one needs as an academic. That skill needs to be fostered.

But this isn't an academic context; this is a substack essay published on the internet for some internet denizens to read. In this case it makes a lot of sense to ask whether or not the essay succeeds at being persuasive, in the way it makes sense to critique whether or not a speech is delivered well. A public speaker can make a great point, but if they vomit on themselves halfway through the point, it makes sense to go "well, maybe we should address to vomiting thing" instead of "disgust in someone's vomiting on themselves is a failure of the audience".

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#283
post #137

All diversity policies and measures are leading to Cobra effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive#The_origina... The only policy that is actually right is not to discriminate against colors, ethnicities, political views, etc.. but putting pressure to try to hire african/asian/latinos/women/whatever is like putting pressure on people to buy products from someone just to proof they don't discriminate ag…

No post body was provided.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#284
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every single person I've met in my life that was racist or sexist or whatever-ist (including myself) has only become a better person and more open-minded when they were forced to work in close proximity to people of other races and cultures. As to myself, I was raised in a pretty racist place in the USA, and via the military I met so many other people that I finally realized that the stereotypes I was taught about ot…

> ... We're not machines, after all, and shouldn't be treated like only our output matters. Sure, but that's not enforcing open-mindedness or tolerance. It's just creating the kind of setting where the benefits of a more tolerant stance are easiest to get.

Yea, and I guess I agree we can't enforce it, we can just do things to make it easier to become open minded. One way to do that is to force people to interact in close proximity to cultures and individuals who are different than what they have experienced to date. Mostly, today, that involves putting people of different skin colors and sexes together. Tomorrow, perhaps we'll have to make sure humans and intelligent cows work closely together, I don't know (I'm serious! perhaps if humans and cows spent more time together we'd eat less of them?).

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#285
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are lots of good, sharp, critical things to say about the DEI movement Would you mind saying them?

I can rattle some off, I guess? Institutional DEI can be elitist, furthering the interests of well-off credentialed people at the expense of those it claims to help; performative; a way of short-circuiting real debates about values that are uncomfortable or that cut against elite interests; largely defined in terms relevant to competing groups of rich white people; a surreptitious way of laundering policy arguments t…

I've read and understood this response. I've re-read and tried to understand your original comment criticizing the article. I do not understand it, though (except that it highlights the article's tone—critically).

Who is the opposition to Huemer (the author of this article)? What does animate their opposition to his case?

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that unintended consequences (a subset of which are the Cobra effect) are bad. Can you explain further what type of unintended consequences you are thinking of in the AA context? The main one that springs to mind is that some people will assume that employees were hired/promoted based on race/gender/etc. Are there other unintended consequences in this context?

I don't know what's actually happening, but my interpretation of the cobra effect reference is that people are inventing new identities/affinities in order to be able to benefit from the systems which reward them.

What identities/affinities were invented in order to be able to benefit from the systems which reward them?

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#287
post #240

As someone currently helping my son fill out college applications, I find this article 100% on point. For one public college, there are only two essay questions and they both deal with diversity. How does a white middle class male answer? He has an incredible fascination with weather and wants to pursue that as a major. Does he emphasize this aspect since it sets him apart from other applicants. Logically, that would…

> How does a white middle class male answer? Diversity doesn't only mean race. It can mean cultural backgrounds, experiences, values and viewpoints. It can mean creative vs. analytic thinkers, artistic vs. not, leadership, extroversion, unusual contributions to society, and so on. If you're a physics expert in a team of math experts, you add diversity.

That’s true but it’s not what they actually mean when they say “diversity” so all of this should be left out of the essay.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#288

So here's where I'm stuck: On the one hand I totally understand the objections to categorizing people based on things that won't affect their job performance per se -- skin color, gender, who they are attracted to, etc. But on the other hand, those people have been systematically discriminated against, well, forever. So the question is, where should the fix be applied? If the only people who have the skills to do the…

I mainly agree with the OP. While they don't come out and say it, most on the DEI frontlines execute on the idea that the fix to the fact that "those people have been discriminated against, well, forever" is not to do away with discrimination completely, but rather to discriminate actively against races/genders/orientations that haven't been discriminated against in the same way. This strikes me as faulty thinking. R…

> Either you're against discrimination or you're only against discrimination against , which makes you a discriminator.

"The Master's Tools Will Never Dismantle the Master's House"

Moreover, I strongly suspect this kind of "reverse discrimination" (and general conditioning to identify racially) is driving a lot of right-wing radicalization. Even if you don't think "reverse racism" qualifies as "racism", surely you should be concerned if it is indeed driving more ole-fashioned, anti-minority racism, right?

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#289
post #137

All diversity policies and measures are leading to Cobra effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive#The_origina... The only policy that is actually right is not to discriminate against colors, ethnicities, political views, etc.. but putting pressure to try to hire african/asian/latinos/women/whatever is like putting pressure on people to buy products from someone just to proof they don't discriminate ag…

[deleted]

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#290
post #240

As someone currently helping my son fill out college applications, I find this article 100% on point. For one public college, there are only two essay questions and they both deal with diversity. How does a white middle class male answer? He has an incredible fascination with weather and wants to pursue that as a major. Does he emphasize this aspect since it sets him apart from other applicants. Logically, that would…

> How does a white middle class male answer?

Someone close to me hired a writer to pen a woke entrance essay for their son. This was after a guidance counselor warned that "people like him" are having a hard time getting into medical school right now. We can't say if it worked or not, but he did get in.

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