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Who cares about diversity?

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Re: Who cares about diversity?

#191

Post by fi358 »

fi358 wrote: post #133
stuckinhell wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks to ESG scores, yes they do. I've been under extreme pressure to get my team up to 40% women/nonbinary/lgbt even if their skills are subpar. It's coming from the top down. However, I do get some leeway from HR on their paper education profile and paper experience. I say "paper", because we already fired several people for basically lying on their resume.

How do the HR people even know that if some team members are LGBT? I am a gay and I think it is my private matter and not something I would be interested sharing with for example my employer. I prefer to separate work and my private life in many other issues as well.

It sounds very odd to ask about these kind of things during employment. How often do for example LGBT persons provide this kind information in their job application and is it even legal to ask it?

And on the other hand, is there anything that prevents you pretending to be a member of some minority? For example, if you can get more easily employed by saying that you are bisexual, is there anything that would prevent you lying? If there isn't, why even bother asking about these kind of things.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#192

Post by gremlinsinc »

haunter wrote: post #110

The elite does. They want a race war instead of class war because they know they would lose the latter. Divide et impera has been used for more than 2000 years and it will never go away.

True, but a race war is us against us, a class war is 90% vs 10%... the 10% currently in power.

The southern strategy was to literally go against anything that would benefit black people, EVEN if it benefited poor white people too, because it's better to be miserable and white than to let a black person get ahead of you from government handouts. This was the entire strategy of the GOP(still is) since the 1950s.

I think the centrists (which may even just be a 'role' they play) goal is to keep both parties fighting on fringe issues like abortion and guns so we don't stop to reevaluate how much we're being fleeced by the govt to create $$ for their buddies in the oil and defense industries. Their purpose is to appear w/ the others, but only slightly and to ensure that the status quo remains intact.

Lee atwater said in 1981:

“As to the whole Southern strategy that Harry S. Dent, Sr. and others put together in 1968, opposition to the Voting Rights Act would have been a central part of keeping the South. Y’all don’t quote me on this. You start out in 1954 by saying, ‘N*er, n*er, n*er’. By 1968 you can’t say ‘n*er’—that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states’ rights and all that stuff. You’re getting so abstract now [that] you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I’m not saying that. But I’m saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me—because obviously sitting around saying, ‘We want to cut this’, is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than ‘N*r, n*r.’ So, any way you look at it, race is coming on the back-burner.”

When I read this a few years back, it totally just clicked - that this is the entire economic platform of the right. Working class republicans support things that go against their own best interest (medicare for all for example), simply because they damn well don't want non-whites to have nice things, even if it means they don't get to either. Asinine as hell, but generations of racism and bigotry don't generally create tolerant people wanting to switch things up.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#193

Post by caterpi11ar »

ryeguy_24 wrote: post #54

Isn't the real issue behind all the names (diversity, inclusion, etc) about the equalizing of opportunity or at the very least, bringing certain oppressed groups (and, if you don't think certain groups are or have been oppressed or discriminated against, educate yourself) up the opportunity curve? Do we want to live in a world where you have less opportunity because of characteristics you were born with?

do you want to live in a world where your surgeon was 'brought up the opportunity curve'? (very nice euphemism, i'll be using that, thanks

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#195

Post by medvezhenok »

ryeguy_24 wrote: post #54

Isn't the real issue behind all the names (diversity, inclusion, etc) about the equalizing of opportunity or at the very least, bringing certain oppressed groups (and, if you don't think certain groups are or have been oppressed or discriminated against, educate yourself) up the opportunity curve? Do we want to live in a world where you have less opportunity because of characteristics you were born with?

Short of genetic modification, we are always going to live in a world where your opportunities depend on the characteristics you were born with. We can smooth it out somewhat, but not remove it completely.

Look at discrimination against unattractive people for one - it is actually more pronounced (although less overtly visible) than discrimination by race, but gets significantly less media coverage. There are also many other axes - height, intelligence, character - most of which are heavily influenced by genetics; we simply consider it acceptable to discriminate based on these attributes.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#196

Post by MrStonedOne »

jedberg wrote: post #180

So here's where I'm stuck: On the one hand I totally understand the objections to categorizing people based on things that won't affect their job performance per se -- skin color, gender, who they are attracted to, etc. But on the other hand, those people have been systematically discriminated against, well, forever. So the question is, where should the fix be applied? If the only people who have the skills to do the…

>you can't deny that a black woman has had a vastly difference life experience than a white man

So, where i get stuck, is that you can't actually make this statement about any individual black woman or white man.

The one common theme across all of social justice is that stereotyping is bad. Erasing individuality and forcing people to live in the shadow of their stereotypes is bad.

Yet its apparently allowed here? Because it mostly benefits minorities?

This is the unspoken line the separates identity politics and equality. A focus on minorities vs a focus on ending discrimination and stereotyping, which under equality would include AA.

When (most) people say they are against "woke" culture or "sjws" they generally mean they are against the identity politics flavor of ""equality"". Because identity politics is just a racist sexist dog whistle for discrimination against majorities.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#197

Post by colpabar »

ricardoplouis wrote: post #174

Given the stark racial inequality we have today due to compounding wealth from centuries of colonialism and slavery, it seems diversity is the bare minimum we could do to address such a burden, and it's a shame that is even considered controversial. Is there an "unoffensive" solution to address this history or should we all just get along and pretend it didn't happen?

Nope! The bare minimum we could do is start getting mad about how rich the rich are, and stop fighting among ourselves. Diversity is a tool used by the rich to keep us from uniting against them, and sadly it is really effective.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#198

Post by remarkEon »

Ekaros wrote: post #161
autokad wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

part of the problem with Asian Americans in the application process is that they are treated just as Asians. My Computer Science Program at University of Pennsylvania was about 74% Asian, 20% Indian, and 5% European. There was Problem is, the 74% Asian was almost entirely Chinese born Chinese, and I do feel it hurt the program. They did not want to join groups with non-Chinese people because they preferred speaking C…

Shouldn't the 26% learned Mandarin and thus integrated with this group? I think that would have solved the problem. It is unreasonable for minority to expect the majority to follow their whims.

It's an American University. They can learn English.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#199

Post by wonnage »

littlelamb wrote: post #88

I am absolutely all in for equality, but definitely strongly against equity. When I get HR try to shove a resume down my throat because it ticks all of their boxes despite having none of the boxes to be succesful on the job, that is when I draw the line. I don't care if you're white, black, purple or green, and whether you fuck men, women, all of them or none of them is none of my business. At the end of the day I wa…

This comment just implies that you assume any minority candidate that HR failed to screen is a diversity hire.

And of course now every minority employee at your company has to excel or else they might torpedo the entire diversity hiring initiative.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#200

Post by mixmastamyk »

tptacek wrote: post #166
mixmastamyk wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good point. However, when a phrase becomes its opposite, we should take notice. PRC and Holy Roman Empire come to mind. ;-)

I don't believe any phrase has become its opposite here. Language is complicated, and some words have multiple meanings, and some of those meanings are subtle; the idea that every term should be crystalized down to a single unambiguous meaning is, ironically, quintessentially Orwellian. (I'm not saying Orwell would approve of institutional DEI, which suffers from many similar rhetorical flaws).

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