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Who cares about diversity?

fakenous.substack.com

151–160 of 536 posts

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This argument is written and reasoned like that of a high school sophomore" is, believe it or not, not an ad-hominem argument.

"sort of comically smug"

Also not an ad-hominem argument! In fact, it's even less of an ad-hominem argument than "written like a teenager" is. And it is in fact smug!

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#152
I don't even think ideological / philosophical / political diversity is that good a thing. If you are the college admissions person, are you more likely to admit a eugenicist who thinks their ethnic group is best? I mean, that's a really unusual opinion for a prospective student to express! Wouldn't that increase diversity? You work in a media company and someone who wants to bring their niche fundamentalist religious perspective to your content - whoa, super diverse, right? Hospital hiring a witch doctor? Don't have too many of those on staff!

I think for the vast majority of positions what you want is someone who can do the job well and their ability will naturally constrain their opinions and experience and, in some cases, their demographic characteristics as well. For students you want smart people who have a documented history of being able to learn. Intellectual diversity should arrive naturally from a population of smart people trying to learn. Intellectual diversity should not be a goal itself.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#153
post #63

For an example of this, see this story about Canadian professor and laser scientist Patanjali Kambhampati who was denied for grants because his avowed commitment to mere non-discrimination and merit-based hiring was deemed insufficient. https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/minority-professor-deni...

I'd agree that those sorts of outcomes are just as bad as ignoring the problems of internalised systemic biases towards particular sexes, age groups, racial backgrounds or lack of obvious but irrelevant physical disabilities. We may not have found the best way to ensure that a 60yo black, wheelchair-bound woman is just as likely to be chosen on merit as a 30yo white able-bodied man yet but it doesn't seem we shouldn't keep trying.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like the kind of thing you say when you are annoyed but cant find a good argument against the points being made.

It’s level 3 on pg’s hierarchy of disagreement - the whole concept of which I find interesting: http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html

The implication is that somehow being correct in an argument matters more than tone, which is... childish.

If you want to have a productive argument (as opposed to just being an asshole screaming at passerby) you need to convince people that you are worth engaging.

This means showing good faith and not being overly dismissive (i.e. tone).

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#155
post #35

I certainly don't, at least not in the way that modern society seems to be pushing for it. A year or two ago a high school was putting on a production of The Hunchback of Notre Dame , and there was a loud minority of students complaining because a white girl was cast as Esmeralda. In the original book, Esmeralda is ethnically French, but Gypsies steal her as an infant and replace her with Quasimodo. Many years later,…

> In the original book, Esmeralda is ethnically French I mean, I just think that no one seems to be aware of this. She's not French in the movie adaptation, which is what most of those kids would be familiar with. (And the musical does heavily draw from the movie – including leaving out her meeting her mother). Without the added context of the original book's description, since it seems no one was aware of it, do you…

>Without the added context of the original book's description, since it seems no one was aware of it, do you think the uproar was justified?

No, I don't think willful ignorance justifies cancel culture.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the full piece and didn't encounter any phrasing like that. A few things were pushing the envelope, maybe? Haven't been at Uni for a long time, but after reading about the Oberlin case my eyes/ears are open. Suppose it is problematic if the author does indulge in that, but am not going searching for it. Found this piece reasonable on the whole. It does have an opinion on intolerance, and not everyone is going…

It's not hard to come up with valid critiques of institutional DEI. But the blog post we're reading here is conclusory and derives almost entirely from a tendentious definition of a single word.

That's a good point. However, when a phrase becomes its opposite, we should take notice. PRC and Holy Roman Empire come to mind. ;-)

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#157

I care about diversity. I've been a women in stem nearly my entire life (thanks dad!). However diversity quotas, esg scores, and all the manipulation in "diversity" and "woke" today is more about incompetent children of the rich who need fake jobs that make a lot of money. I've refused to hire an english major young woman on my development team even under extreme pressure from management because she's a women, but al…

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Re: Who cares about diversity?

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another reason people don't like diversity initiatives is that whenever you try to have an honest conversation about its problems, you get accused of ridiculous things, like being racist/sexist/etc or thinking nepotism is good.

Nobody thinks nepotism is good (or at least, nobody on this thread does). But there are more- and less- threatening versions of it.

I don't think anyone is contesting that, but the point seems to be that the people who push these initiatives undeniably think nepotism is, in fact, good because that's what their actions tell us.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#159
post #94

My problem with so-called diversity efforts is that they wildly overemphasize a really superficial attribute: skin color. That is, at best, a tenuous proxy for actual diversity and goes against decades of work of the U.S. civil rights movement. There are real benefits to having a diverse group of people in just about every setting, but assessing the level of diversity by noting the range of skin tones present is inef…

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Re: Who cares about diversity?

#160

"Diverse" doesn't mean "diverse", it just means "left constituencies". Thus certain races are "racially diverse" (blacks most, whites of course least), certain income strata are "economically diverse", etc. You really can't assume words have their conventional meaning when used in a political context.

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