The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving • Hacker News Board

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#41

Post by philwelch » Fri, Nov 25, 2011, 3:29 AM UTC

curiouskat wrote: post #17

josephcooney wrote: post #10

What's the reason for keeping the footage out of the public's hands? "Proprietary NFL coaching information" doesn't really explain it. Are the NFL making money off the teams by cutting them a special deal of All-22 footage of their own games, and opponents?

The NFL's lawyers stated the NFL competes in the "entertainment marketplace" ( http://judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?renderfor... ) and operates as a single entity, not as 32 teams. The NFL makes a large portion of its revenue from television, and ratings are higher on close, competitive games. What prevents owners from keeping the games close or trading wins/losses now to help a storyline in exchange fo…

Problem is, a lot of memorable and important moments probably couldn't be faked if they tried, like the catch against the helmet when the Patriots lost to the Giants.

It would most certainly be a scandal, likely illegal or jeopardizing the NFL's Congressionally granted monopoly if it were fixed. One precedent is the quiz show scandals of the 50's.

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#42

Post by whatusername » Fri, Nov 25, 2011, 3:31 AM UTC

ubernostrum wrote: post #39

ghshephard wrote: post #2

Seems like there's an opportunity here - how difficult would it be for a fan to video / stream the "all-22" from high angle (read nosebleed) seats? I've brought my Laptop and SLR into football and baseball games (Oakland), so they aren't that strict about allowing media/comms equipment in.

Amusingly, baseball broadcasts would also benefit from a broader view. Televised baseball consists almost entirely of views of the pitcher and the batter, and only turns somewhere else to show where the ball ended up or to focus on a runner who's doing something. And that misses out on so much of the actual game . The standard view from center field, looking at the pitcher and the batter, can't show you an infield sh…

Have you ever seen televised test match cricket? The CG overlays (bowls short/long, the direction the batter has played each shot, the positions of the fielders) -- add a heap of info (that a TV can show better than being there in person)

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#43

Post by philwelch » Fri, Nov 25, 2011, 3:42 AM UTC

mechanical_fish wrote: post #34

keeptrying wrote: post #5

You can figure out whats happening on the field just from what they show on TV. I wrote an answer on quora on how to do this: What I enjoy in a football game is understanding the strategy thats being carried out and the efficiency of execution on every play. I've broken down a list of positions/schemes/plays to look for below. The following applies when watching a regular play from scrimmage - ie one that will be eit…

This is excellent. Here's a question: Where can I buy the equivalent of this post , but in video form with actual illustrative game footage? I've wanted to see that for some time. Want it for every sport on earth, really. I've thought about trying to watch a bunch of coaching videos for my sport of choice, but was never sure it would help. They aren't designed for me. I don't need to know how to think like an above-a…

Coaching videos might still be illustrative, though more for the finer points of technique, which matter more than one might think. Not even pros have perfect fundamentals every time.

There is a plethora of this material for soccer, Zonal Marking (zonalmarking.net) is one major blog that covers apparently every match in most major world leagues.

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#44

Post by keeptrying » Fri, Nov 25, 2011, 3:43 AM UTC

mechanical_fish wrote: post #34

keeptrying wrote: post #5

You can figure out whats happening on the field just from what they show on TV. I wrote an answer on quora on how to do this: What I enjoy in a football game is understanding the strategy thats being carried out and the efficiency of execution on every play. I've broken down a list of positions/schemes/plays to look for below. The following applies when watching a regular play from scrimmage - ie one that will be eit…

This is excellent. Here's a question: Where can I buy the equivalent of this post , but in video form with actual illustrative game footage? I've wanted to see that for some time. Want it for every sport on earth, really. I've thought about trying to watch a bunch of coaching videos for my sport of choice, but was never sure it would help. They aren't designed for me. I don't need to know how to think like an above-a…

Thank you.

Hmm I've never actually seen anything put together like this. But you can follow Chris Brown on Grantland.com who breaks donw plays (with video and diagrams) from each NFL week and you'll slowly figure out what to look for and understand the strategy within the game. Also nfl.com has PlayBook (show) videos which break down different plays from the week.

A great tool to watch plays in stop motion so you can figure out whats happening is NFL Game rewind.

What I've written here is more a structured way of breaking down an NFL play as its taking place.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/9595/dr...

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-playbook

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#45

Post by keeptrying » Fri, Nov 25, 2011, 3:45 AM UTC

defen wrote: post #33

keeptrying wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a bunch of things you can look for on punt formations: 1. See if they have the backup QB as one of the "backs" on a punt. This is hard to do on TV but the commentator will usually pick this up. 2. See if all players are matched up on the line of scrimmage. Especially the gunners who are out wide. If these guys arent matched out it might be a fake with a snap to one of the "backs" who throws it out to a gunn…

You might enjoy this article - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405297020369940457704...

Thanks for that- I really havent been watching much college football. If this guy keeps it up he'll be the first punter to be taken in the top 20 of the draft! lol!

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#46

Post by burgerbrain » Fri, Nov 25, 2011, 4:03 AM UTC

matdwyer wrote: post #37

SamReidHughes wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That would work for about 20 minutes until they find out your location and throw the book at you for broadcasting a copyrighted event. Um, no? There is nothing copyrighted about the on-field action of a football game. All they can do is kick you out of the stadium.

Go try it and let us know how it works out. Nearly every professional sports team has policies against recording (even your own home videos) at the games. You'll promptly be asked to leave if you don't comply. By your logic, If Fox has the superbowl, NBC could sit above an open stadium in a helicopter and broadcast the whole game - I don't think thats the case, but I don't have the laws to back it up.

"You'll promptly be asked to leave if you don't comply."

That is exactly what he just said....

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#47

Post by nuromancer » Fri, Nov 25, 2011, 4:09 AM UTC

keeptrying wrote: post #5

You can figure out whats happening on the field just from what they show on TV. I wrote an answer on quora on how to do this: What I enjoy in a football game is understanding the strategy thats being carried out and the efficiency of execution on every play. I've broken down a list of positions/schemes/plays to look for below. The following applies when watching a regular play from scrimmage - ie one that will be eit…

>* 2 Safeties If you've figured out there are two safeties then this implies that the defense is looking to take away big passing plays but give up the middle of the field.

2 safeties is pretty standard and is just as much a run stopping defense. For example the corners in man on the exterior with the safeties in man on the interior is a run stopping defense. Backers often cover the apex or a safety roles to the center taking away the middle. Nice overal explanation but the strategy in football is to "show" one thing and do another which is why a pre-snap read only goes so far.

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#48

Post by baddox » Fri, Nov 25, 2011, 4:14 AM UTC

SamReidHughes wrote: post #23

matdwyer wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would work for about 20 minutes until they find out your location and throw the book at you for broadcasting a copyrighted event. You got an SLR in, but try "filming" a game with it - you'll be stopped in under 10 minutes, I promise you Also, that isn't like the streaming sites where you can be at a desk in Sweden and re-broadcasting games fairly anonymously... they'd just walk up to your seat and escort you out…

> That would work for about 20 minutes until they find out your location and throw the book at you for broadcasting a copyrighted event. Um, no? There is nothing copyrighted about the on-field action of a football game. All they can do is kick you out of the stadium.

Don't be so quick to attribute saneness to IP protection laws. Don't they still do the whole "any rebroadcast, retransmission, or account of this game is prohibited" thing?

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#49

Post by bokonist » Fri, Nov 25, 2011, 4:18 AM UTC

mechanical_fish wrote: post #34

keeptrying wrote: post #5

You can figure out whats happening on the field just from what they show on TV. I wrote an answer on quora on how to do this: What I enjoy in a football game is understanding the strategy thats being carried out and the efficiency of execution on every play. I've broken down a list of positions/schemes/plays to look for below. The following applies when watching a regular play from scrimmage - ie one that will be eit…

This is excellent. Here's a question: Where can I buy the equivalent of this post , but in video form with actual illustrative game footage? I've wanted to see that for some time. Want it for every sport on earth, really. I've thought about trying to watch a bunch of coaching videos for my sport of choice, but was never sure it would help. They aren't designed for me. I don't need to know how to think like an above-a…

If you have an xbox or playstation buy Madden and try learning to play the game it a bit. The formations, plays, and strategy are pretty much all real. You'll learn about different formations, routes, zone defense, etc.

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#50

Post by neutronicus » Fri, Nov 25, 2011, 4:26 AM UTC

keeptrying wrote: post #5

You can figure out whats happening on the field just from what they show on TV. I wrote an answer on quora on how to do this: What I enjoy in a football game is understanding the strategy thats being carried out and the efficiency of execution on every play. I've broken down a list of positions/schemes/plays to look for below. The following applies when watching a regular play from scrimmage - ie one that will be eit…

As the ball is being snapped:

Watch the offensive linemen. If any one of them fires forward and crosses the line of scrimmage, it's a run. If either guard (guys to either side of the center) starts running to one side or the other, the play is almost certainly going that way. If the offensive linemen stand up and move backwards, it's probably a pass.

The quarterback and running back do a lot of things to disguise which way the play is going, but you can almost always tell what kind of play the offense is running by watching the offensive linemen.