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The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

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Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#11

Post by w1ntermute »

matdwyer wrote: post #9
w1ntermute wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about posting it after the fact? If you were to use a small enough camera (as technology advances, this will only get easier), it's very possible you could make it through a game without getting caught.

Sure, you could have a go-pro or something, but it wont be anywhere near what people will pay for. They want the full overhead view so they can track the plays & the movement of each player - you're still not getting that angle from the nosebleeds. Regardless, its an awful lot of work which is a) still illegal (therefore risky) b) difficult to market and c) completely obsolete the second the NFL network starts a new…

Well, it's better than nothing. From what it said at the end of the article, it doesn't look like the NFL has any plans to start selling this information to fans any time soon.

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#12

Post by mnutt »

It sounds extremely challenging, but could someone use image detection to process the existing camera angles and use the field markers to recreate an overhead view of the game? If it worked, you could probably use that to do some interesting play analyses over a large number of games.

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#14

Post by ghshephard »

babar wrote: post #6
ghshephard wrote: post #2

Seems like there's an opportunity here - how difficult would it be for a fan to video / stream the "all-22" from high angle (read nosebleed) seats? I've brought my Laptop and SLR into football and baseball games (Oakland), so they aren't that strict about allowing media/comms equipment in.

I am pretty sure the NFL would shut down any distribution very quickly - not sure how much of an opportunity there is if it blatantly violates someone's IP rights. What I don't understand is why the NFL wouldn't use it to generate more revenue. Do they really think the criticism would be any worse than it is today with 24/7 sports talk and online message boards? Why not have the criticism be more grounded in reality?

I'm a pretty strong supporter of IP rights - but in this case I feel capturing the game that I'm watching falls into grey area - something akin to a bootleg of a concert.

I agree it's likely that a live stream would be shut down fairly quickly, particularly at scale, but I'm thinking a combination of after-the-fact + some intelligent post-processing might be useful/valuable.

Admittedly, the majority-value is in the real-time production, but, by providing after-the game all-22 videos, you might be able to fly somewhat under the radar.

I've never been asked to stop taking pictures with my (admittedly small) 70-200 lens - and it's usually perched atop a rail for the entire game - I could just as easily have been filming the entire game as snapping pictures.

Looking at various venue's policies - it would be hard to do this on a reliable basis with a larger lens: http://www.coliseum.com/info/prohibiteditems.php

But, the all-22 isn't really a zoom situation anyways...

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#15

Post by temuze »

keeptrying wrote: post #5

You can figure out whats happening on the field just from what they show on TV. I wrote an answer on quora on how to do this: What I enjoy in a football game is understanding the strategy thats being carried out and the efficiency of execution on every play. I've broken down a list of positions/schemes/plays to look for below. The following applies when watching a regular play from scrimmage - ie one that will be eit…

What do you look for in special teams, like when they do punt returns?

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#16

Post by keeptrying »

temuze wrote: post #15
keeptrying wrote: post #5

You can figure out whats happening on the field just from what they show on TV. I wrote an answer on quora on how to do this: What I enjoy in a football game is understanding the strategy thats being carried out and the efficiency of execution on every play. I've broken down a list of positions/schemes/plays to look for below. The following applies when watching a regular play from scrimmage - ie one that will be eit…

What do you look for in special teams, like when they do punt returns?

There are a bunch of things you can look for on punt formations:

1. See if they have the backup QB as one of the "backs" on a punt. This is hard to do on TV but the commentator will usually pick this up.

2. See if all players are matched up on the line of scrimmage. Especially the gunners who are out wide. If these guys arent matched out it might be a fake with a snap to one of the "backs" who throws it out to a gunner. (Similar to a smoke play a regular offense would run except much rarer).

Punters are very underrated by most NFL fans. You have to understand that a good punter can make the offense of the other team have to gain a whole hundred or more yards for the same, than they would have had to if they were facing a bad punter.

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#17

Post by curiouskat »

josephcooney wrote: post #10

What's the reason for keeping the footage out of the public's hands? "Proprietary NFL coaching information" doesn't really explain it. Are the NFL making money off the teams by cutting them a special deal of All-22 footage of their own games, and opponents?

The NFL's lawyers stated the NFL competes in the "entertainment marketplace" (http://judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?renderfor...) and operates as a single entity, not as 32 teams. The NFL makes a large portion of its revenue from television, and ratings are higher on close, competitive games.

What prevents owners from keeping the games close or trading wins/losses now to help a storyline in exchange for markers for future wins when they're on a championship track?

While it is illegal to fix sporting events for gambling purposes, evidently you can fix sports for entertainment purposes. The All 22 footage would make this more difficult because this type of stuff would be easier for fans to detect.

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#18

Post by Anechoic »

keeptrying wrote: post #5

You can figure out whats happening on the field just from what they show on TV. I wrote an answer on quora on how to do this: What I enjoy in a football game is understanding the strategy thats being carried out and the efficiency of execution on every play. I've broken down a list of positions/schemes/plays to look for below. The following applies when watching a regular play from scrimmage - ie one that will be eit…

> unless its the damn Patriots of 2010

I heart Gronk and Hernandez!

> If they are in line, in front of the QB then you can safely assume a pass or trick play.

Not really, since defenses can see the same thing and know a team's tendencies from scouting. A better indication of pass vs. run is how far the tailback lines up behind scrimmage. For run plays, the RB tends to line up about 6-7 yards behind scrimmage to they can get up a head of steam as they go through the line. For pass and play-action the tailbacks line up closer (around 5 yards) so they can sneak through the line for pass routes or quickly block blitzers. It's harder for defenses on the field to see if a RB is lining up 5 yards deep vs 7 yards deep.

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#19

Post by rsanchez1 »

babar wrote: post #6
ghshephard wrote: post #2

Seems like there's an opportunity here - how difficult would it be for a fan to video / stream the "all-22" from high angle (read nosebleed) seats? I've brought my Laptop and SLR into football and baseball games (Oakland), so they aren't that strict about allowing media/comms equipment in.

I am pretty sure the NFL would shut down any distribution very quickly - not sure how much of an opportunity there is if it blatantly violates someone's IP rights. What I don't understand is why the NFL wouldn't use it to generate more revenue. Do they really think the criticism would be any worse than it is today with 24/7 sports talk and online message boards? Why not have the criticism be more grounded in reality?

Yeah, I think that's just an excuse they're using. Today's 24-hour media subjects athletes to extreme scrutiny. Any action results in intense criticism. If any athlete does something tabloid-worthy, people will know. Adding more "data", the All-22 footage, won't change the situation much. The owners probably have this irrational fear that this footage will let opposing teams gain greater insights into their teams strategies, and while the NFL might want to open this additional line of revenue, the owners might have their hands tied.

Re: The sports footage you won't see on TV this Thanksgiving

#20

Post by 1010101111001 »

Well, this is why NFL Films and the old programs they produced in the 70's and 80's are so cool. NFL Films had it all. Every angle, every sound plus the all-22. They could do the full analysis. And their choice of music was, in retrospect, brilliant. I can watch those old programs year after year. Somehow I never get tired of them.

Now we have ESPN.

Hats off to keeptrying. You are a true fan.

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