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Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

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Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#231

Post by mmastrac »

vintermann wrote: post #164
polio wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deplatforming is analogous to quarantining a person with an infectious disease. It works. The FBI can still monitor whatever's left of KF on Tor or Discord.

If you think of beliefs as infectious diseases, you're not respecting the autonomy of other people. If I need to be prevented from knowing what the monsters say in order to avoid turning into a monster myself, then I promise you, we've lost. The monsters are going to eat us all.

You've got plenty of autonomy left to visit them in whatever darkweb hellhole they decide to exist in and learn what the monsters are saying. We don't need to allow places in the public square for these people.

Tolerance for ideas is not a suicide pact.

Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#232

Post by _9xrb »

bastawhiz wrote: post #201
_9xrb wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were no dumps of bank account numbers. As far as I saw, Kiwi Farms users posted only publicly-available info about thread subjects. In my opinion, certain categories of public yet personally-identifying information should be covered by US law in a way similar to HIPAA. However, that is not currently the case. Also, info like someone's phone number and home address are only a click away once you have their full…

It's easily verifiable that bank details were shared on KF. It's also easily verifiable to see that non-public information about folks was posted, especially when real details were posted about folks commonly known by their pseudonyms online. Whether it's legal or not is unimportant. My question is for the internet archive: is it ethical for them to knowingly rehost dumps of PII? Just because it's public doesn't mean…

>It's easily verifiable that bank details were shared on KF.

I see you've backed off from "bank account numbers" to "bank account details," perhaps after Googling the same Twitter screenshots I just found in an attempt to verify your claim. Those screenshots show a user describing a hacked bank account's balance and recent purchases. That's pretty bad; hacking into bank accounts is very illegal. The individual who broke into the account very likely committed a crime. Regardless, the screenshots don't show any credentials or account numbers. I'm not sure if posting someone's bank balance is illegal, but I'm guessing it isn't; maybe it depends on how it was obtained... don't know, not a lawyer.

Of course, the screenshot is totally unverifiable now that KF is wiped from the Internet Archives, which is the point of the submitted link.

Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#233

Post by gs17 »

47rufhdhsjsjdbb wrote: post #65

Hopefully the result of all this will be more mainstream adoption of tor, i2p, freenet and other censorship-resistant platforms.

I don't see how this would make it more mainstream, it might boost adoption, but link them even more to what the mainstream sees as "bad guys".

Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#234

Post by scifibestfi »

shitlord wrote: post #203
hnburnsy wrote: post #49

Well I guess there is now limited ways for someone to evaluate for themselves on whether KF was posting horrific content without significant moderation. Guess we at least have Taylor Lorenz to tell us exactly what is going on here in a full and unbiased way. Someone here at HN at least posted this link which told more of the story than I have seen anywhere else. Also search the HN archives (for now at least it seems)…

Fun fact: Taylor Lorenz's Twitter account is also excluded from the internet archive.

Why?

Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#235

Post by devwastaken »

jjulius wrote: post #139
devwastaken wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By removing records of KF, we cannot prove the acts done on KF. You know, evidence, the thing you need to know if something is true or not. Or the thing you need to prosecute people civilly (or criminally). If I wanted to rightfully go after users of KF, or KF itself, how exactly do you intend to do that when all records are destroyed. "The guberment will handle it" - they're not, and haven't for years. The only just…

>By removing records of KF, we cannot prove the acts done on KF. You're ignoring (what was that about "intellectual dishonesty"?) the part where this is likely still archived by them, just not publicly accessible. You're also forgetting the countless screenshots and other documentation that exists of KF from prior controversial incidents.

"likely still archived" isnt a convincing argument to compel discovery. Similarly, I'd like to see you convince a judge to allow random screenshots and documents into evidence without being able to prove their source. This isn't the wild west.

Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#236

Post by voidpointercast »

a_shovel wrote: post #228
hnburnsy wrote: post #49

Well I guess there is now limited ways for someone to evaluate for themselves on whether KF was posting horrific content without significant moderation. Guess we at least have Taylor Lorenz to tell us exactly what is going on here in a full and unbiased way. Someone here at HN at least posted this link which told more of the story than I have seen anywhere else. Also search the HN archives (for now at least it seems)…

From the article: > "Short version: [Kiwi Farms is] A very edgy forum ... where users cruelly gossip and post public information on niche online oddities (lolcows) that thrive on the attention KF gives them. " [Emphasis mine.] This piece of egregious victim-blaming should have been your cue to ignore this article. If it wasn't, the victim-blaming in the rest of the article (such as "She probably genuinely enjoys it.…

No post body was provided.

Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#237

Post by jstarfish »

Cr4shMyCar wrote: post #108
baud147258 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

was that reputation substantial though?

Yes, yes it was. Kiwifarms users harassed, stalked, and doxxed 3 people (at least) into suicide and ruined many people's lives. How many people has an average site like Hacker News bullied into suicide?

Your average eating disorder "support group" is guaranteed to have a higher kill count.

The subjects of "To Catch A Predator" also comprise a few suicides.

For a site supposedly created for the purpose of bullying people into suicide, 3 is pretty underwhelming.

Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#238

Post by subsistence234 »

jjulius wrote: post #216
HereIGoAgain wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that kind of is important if you want to force it offline legally!

It's perfectly legal for one to opt not to host something, or provide DDoS protection for it, for any reason they choose.

No post body was provided.

Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive

#239

Post by [deleted] »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #89
firstSpeaker wrote: post #87

Whenever I read stories of big tech making decision to destroy some digital asset by taking decisions like this or banning people from their accounts (read gmail, google drive, etc.) It makes me shiver. They can put a brick wall in front of anyone's life/business.

I'm okay with removing someone from the internet if their business is to harass and dox people.

[deleted]
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