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Don't ignore the janitor

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Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#181

Post by benj111 »

bigDinosaur wrote: post #63
lhorie wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Japanese schools, the kids are the ones doing the cleaning. Not just taking out the trash, but cleaning the blackboards, mopping the floor, tidying up the desks, cleaning the bathrooms, etc. The reasoning isn't to save money, however. It is precisely to teach them there's no such thing as work that is beneath them.

The idea of replicating this in a modern office is quite the amusing image. It strikes me as both true and false: - no job is truly beneath me, and sometimes I have to wade into the weeds so better be prepared - it's also a way to just get essentially free or cheap(er) labour by increasing the duties of those whose time would be better spent elsewhere.

Cheaper labour?

Do you think the cleaner is paid more than the other workers???

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#182

Post by implements »

rocqua wrote: post #158
minimilian wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

It seems to be a result of they as a gender neutral singular pronoun. Which has a long history. Here oneself also works, perhaps even is more correct, but with the increased prominence of them as a singular pronoun, I can see why people write it like this.

Hesitates to venture that "more correct" isn't itself great English ... :)

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#183

Post by Twisell »

I don't get why a lot of people here are trying to rationalize why it's ok to ignore service workers...

You are not requested to engage in small talk every time that isn't OP point. Also while I usually say hello to every worker with whom I have eye contact, I obviously don't interrupt busy people.

The point is that some office workers avoid eye contact with janitors and they shouldn't.

As my former boss used to say a good recruitment process start by asking receptionist if the candidate treated them well.

Without service workers our work conditions could literally turn into a pile of shit and they deserve utter respect.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#184

Post by Dalewyn »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #180
Dalewyn wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over in Japan, it's quite common in schools for the students to clean the classrooms, club rooms, hallways, and occasionally also the restrooms themselves. The schools mandate it as part of the curriculum, since it teaches vital life skills and builds character. The schools have janitors on their payroll, of course.

When did this policy come about?

I don't know the details, but it's been a long-standing tradition for as long as anyone can remember.

Cleaning up after yourself and keeping everything nice and tidy for everyone are just facts of life in Japanese society.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#185

Post by spaghettiToy »

yaseer wrote: post #161
RalfWausE wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, can confirm that: The time i was working in an hospital in germany (around 2001) an older dude worked in the janitor department, turned out, he had an doctor degree in mechanical engeneering and was designing jet engines for MiG before the soviet union collapsed... and now was repairing toilets and changing lightbulbs. Sad stories...

We can all joke about how Big Tech shovels some of the finest technical minds towards clicking ads. But on the plus side, the size of the tech sector in 2022 does make for much more efficient job market for technical skills, than in decades past. I would hope someone with a doctorate in mechanical engineering, who used to design jet engines, would be able adapt their skills to go work somewhere like Tesla, or a self-…

I'll tell you the realities of Mechanical Engineering and auto.

You typically will make a single part. Maybe its the plastic to cover the car's metal. Maybe its the screen user interfaces with, maybe its airbags. Whatever the case, the plastic and screens are deemed necessary by society to sell a car. Some mechanical engineer will have this job.

At least you make cars right? Well there are over 20 major car companies, if your company disappeared tomorrow, life would move on with minimal interruptions.

The most you can claim is that you are forcing the automotive industry to be ultra competitive.

Strangely enough, startups/Tesla is the last place someone with advanced mechanical engineering knowledge would go. From a quality/feature standpoint, new companies have lower standards. Where an established company would be pushing technology and doing things that no one has done before, new companies are just trying to build a car. It would be a resume hit, because you worked on outdated/low tech.

The most you could hope for is additional responsibility and less red tape. I know a manager who was elevated to a director for taking a job at a start-up.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#186

Post by Tade0 »

protomyth wrote: post #176

How about something much simpler, throw your used paper towels INTO the garbage can in the bathroom. I am amazed by the number of supposed professionals that leave them on the counter or just on the floor. It boggles my mind how hard this is for some people.

I've asked one co-worker once why he litters. His reply was: "there are people employed to take care of this for me".

I had no reply to such a statement.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#187

Post by spaghettiToy »

nisegami wrote: post #177
actionfromafar wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope those days don't come back. This migration wave hopefully can get jobs more according to their area of expertise.

The scale has changed, but those days have never really ended. I'm from a Caribbean country that people are usually quite eager to leave. I've seen numerous cases of people with post-secondary education and jobs to go with it leave for the US or UK and end up doing "unskilled" labor because their qualifications don't carry across.

>because their qualifications don't carry across.

New (US) grads have significantly less qualifications than anyone wants to admit. It's getting 2 years of experience that makes the difference.

When looking to hire people from South America, there was lots of manufacturing experience, but we needed Design experience.

When we hired CAD guys, they followed directions fine, but possibly too literally or would stop too prematurely. When getting local, non engineers to do CAD, they would read our mind more.

Not that this is a show stopper. If we met 3 times a day for a quick meeting with our SA CAD guys, we achieved just as much. It just required more meetings/phone calls.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#189

Post by spaghettiToy »

technotarek wrote: post #170

PSA for the younger reader and / or parents: Try being the janitor. I was effectively the janitor for a public ice arena outside Detroit from the age of 14 to 16. I cleaned public restrooms, as well as hockey locker rooms. I emptied large trash bins (thankfully before recycling was mainstream). I cleaned below the bleachers. That was probably the worst. But, if I may say, that experience helped mold me, for the bette…

I also think my teenage job was monumental in my career. Mostly that it helped me get my first industry job.

Then my first intern industry job sucked, which got me a fantastic first job.

Re: Don't ignore the janitor

#190

Post by Tade0 »

When I read articles like these I get a feeling that there's a whole other society out there with very different customs than the ones I'm familiar with.

There are bubbles, I get it. But how prevalent is this?

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