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Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

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Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#561

Post by anigbrowl »

ALittleLight wrote: post #263
weare138 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 people are dead because of that site. What they were doing was a crime. Criminal activity is not is not protected free speech. That's like arguing carding and SIM swapping sites are just expressing their right to free speech and should be protected.

Even if that were true, and I think it's pretty doubtful to just attribute a suicide to some people who made fun of or harassed the deceased, it's a criminal or civil matter. If people on that forum committed a crime, let them face the legal penalties. Why should the website be made persona non grata by Internet companies? How many more are dead from activities on Facebook, Instagram, etc? Why is it that big business…

Why is it that big businesses see no punishment for vastly larger crimes and small communities are harshly dealt with?

Because they have more resources and it's easier to take down a small target than a large one. I am more than fine with Zuckerberg and others being held to account for harms negligently or callously inflicted by Facebook.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#562

Post by [deleted] »

pxeger1 wrote: post #409
neonsunset wrote: post #334

The problem with salem witch trials du jour so fervently pushed by certain groups of people is closing to its demise with every case like this. The advantage of emotionally immature people (regardless of their actual age) having too much time on their hands forcing their narrative and banning any discourse that they don't like will eventually cease when the majority of people will realize that they are, well, in a ma…

(I'm inferring that your comment is supporting KiwiFarms. If this is not the case, you should probably re-word it.) > salem witch trials du jour so fervently pushed by certain groups of people Hunting trans people and pushing them to suicide sounds like much more of a witch trial to me. > forcing their narrative and banning any discourse that they don't like Telling to people to kill themselves is "discourse" that we…

[deleted]

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#563

Post by maybelsyrup »

dmatech wrote: post #549
that_guy_iain wrote: post #45

The thing is, it's hard to feel bad for kiwifarms. They seem to be one of the worst sites there are. But freedom of speech/expression/opinions aren't about defending those who speech/expression/opinions you like but all of them. Personally, I think the site being shutdown is a good thing. But it's hard to look at the fact a few corporations can remove a website from the internet and think this is good for a free and…

This has all the hallmarks of an overreaction to a moral panic, not a rational response to the actual evidence. People become incredibly sure of their positions and don't even want to look at the evidence, but to be honest, the evidence doesn't matter, because people won't be persuaded by it anyway given the stress level and strong emotions. Is the internet a better place without this site? Who knows. But that's not…

> Is the internet a better place without this site? Who knows

Uh I do

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#564

Post by _vvaw »

spurgelaurels wrote: post #545
_vvaw wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SWATing and harassment is explicitly prohibited on Kiwi Farms, and the site owner aggressively removes such content. "Doxing" is for better or worse not a crime, and is practiced by the very same people currently crying for Kiwi Farms' deletion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms I think maybe you should read this.

And I think you should read this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32712037

And this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32728365

The fight over Kiwi Farms' Wikipedia page is intense. Keffals, a central figure to this story described in the second link above, is now quoting the Wikipedia page as fact because it quotes an NBC News story which quotes... Keffals. If you don't rely strictly on primary sources it's impossible to determine truth in this situation.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#565

Post by borski »

cauefcr wrote: post #389
ALittleLight wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if that were true, and I think it's pretty doubtful to just attribute a suicide to some people who made fun of or harassed the deceased, it's a criminal or civil matter. If people on that forum committed a crime, let them face the legal penalties. Why should the website be made persona non grata by Internet companies? How many more are dead from activities on Facebook, Instagram, etc? Why is it that big business…

KF was made _for_ harassment, that's very different.

Even if Facebook were made for harassment (which it wasn’t; you’re thinking of the website pre-FB), they would have since evolved and given that up.

KF never evolved.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#566

Post by dmix »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #494
throwayyy479087 wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of speech for speech you hate is also a social principle - see the ACLU Klan cases. Principles aren't supposed to be easy to keep, otherwise they're hobbies.

Freedom of Speech also means Cloudflare doesn't have to host anyone it doesn't want to.

Freedom of speech is a cultural value, it's not something strictly defined by the US constitution. It's the reason there is a constitution not the other way around.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#567

Post by dmix »

rosnd wrote: post #283
rosmax_1337 wrote: post #207

They should consider building their own DDOS protection. I've heard thats pretty simple and something website owners should be expected to do on their own. After all, it's not like most website owners rally behind like one or two giant services to mitigate the issue of DDOS against their sites. I for one never voted to have CF and DDoS-Guard as censors of the internet.

>I for one never voted to have CF and DDoS-Guard as censors of the internet. Great, they aren't. There are hundreds of other providers to choose from.

This lie lasted only for a few days. I was all over HN a week ago.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#568

Post by Cyberdog »

AtNightWeCode wrote: post #414
Canada wrote: post #149

It's an interesting problem - designing a basic forum that can survive DDoS attacks without a centralized protector such as cloudflare.

You could build something on top of bittorrent for instance. With the consequence that the IPs of the users will get exposed.

Something like BitTorrent wouldn't work well for dynamic content such as a web forum.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#569

Post by woeh »

cowtools wrote: post #440
amatecha wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right? Thoughts and prayers for this service that has the express purpose of instigating and facilitating targeted abuse, doxxing and other harmful crimes. Get some perspective please.

Quoted post unavailable.

The Netherlands is working on making doxxing illegal[0].

And rightly so, imho. Isn't the goal of doxxing harassing someone? How would that translate to citizen journalism? It is more akin to threatening someone than adding to a debate.

[0]https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/actueel/nieuws/2022/07/08/gebru...

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#570

Post by jfax »

deepcyanide wrote: post #158

Is it too early to say the internet is done for because it's looking that way to me. keffals has given the government the recipe to kill off any website they want gone. I'm hearing that keffals creatures are now attacking TOR to get them to drop kiwi too. This isn't going to stop, 4chan is definitely next then every other site that isn't mainstream.

4chan's experienced this kind of attack back in 2003, the year it was found. Users from another website contacted its host over it's hosting of lolicon. moot diplomatically resolved the issue and 4chan has more-or-less been up since. The lindy effect dictates that, having experienced these kinds of shocks along the way, 4chan will be up for another 15 years.
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