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Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

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Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#391

Post by MichaelCollins »

yanderekko wrote: post #347
kelnos wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think because some of us look at Internet access or phone service as akin to water or electricity service. You just don't deprive someone of those things. Regarding your Netflix example, I doubt Netflix knows if any particular customer is a terrorist. Having access to a CDN provider isn't in the same "basic rights" league.

>I think because some of us look at Internet access or phone service as akin to water or electricity service. You just don't deprive someone of those things. I agree that trying to cancel people from being able to enjoy baseline physical necessities is not a line that's being crossed yet, but an attack on utilities may not necessitate this. Let's say Joshua Moon also happened to run a small hobby store in a strip mal…

Anything is fair game when the ends justify the means and the target is accused of killing people on your side. The only reason power companies aren't yet subject to pressure to disconnect bad people is because that tactic is presently judged as infeasible.

They absolutely will ask landlords to kick somebody out. If it becomes known that you're renting a spare room to a neonazi who's become infamous to twitter, don't expect to stay out of the fray.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#392

Post by _-david-_ »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #373
philippejara wrote: post #336

Kiwifarm's owner statement: https://web.archive.org/web/20220905182626/https://poa.st/no... This whole thing is kinda fascinating, if not extremely scary. After learning about the situation from the last couple threads here and going down the rabbit hole of sources, the future of the internet seems pretty sad... If cloudflare doesn't reinstate the website after dealing with said immediate danger they claimed was the…

> the future of the internet seems pretty sad... That’s frankly terrible. Sites infamous for promoting harassment can’t be hosted anymore. Clearly a tremendous loss for the internet. /s

What happens if another site that you consider completely legitimate can't be hosted just because others think it is not acceptable? Maybe your views are currently acceptable, but will they be in 5, 10, 20 years?

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#393

Post by mrweasel »

therouwboat wrote: post #343
ALittleLight wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if that were true, and I think it's pretty doubtful to just attribute a suicide to some people who made fun of or harassed the deceased, it's a criminal or civil matter. If people on that forum committed a crime, let them face the legal penalties. Why should the website be made persona non grata by Internet companies? How many more are dead from activities on Facebook, Instagram, etc? Why is it that big business…

So how many more are dead from Facebook etc?

At least seven. I did a quick search on DuckDuckGo, because I remembered at least one suicide covered in Danish media. The first page alone yielded seven different teenagers from Ireland, United Kingdom, Canada and Danmark.

So just guessing here, but Meta properties alone must have killed thousands of teenagers.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#394

Post by pixl97 »

hecatoncheires wrote: post #295
weare138 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 people are dead because of that site. What they were doing was a crime. Criminal activity is not is not protected free speech. That's like arguing carding and SIM swapping sites are just expressing their right to free speech and should be protected.

Whoop tee doo. I've seen dozens of livestreamed murders on Instagram Live and Facebook Live. Reddit has /r/chiraqology where there are hundreds of videos of gang bangers and drill rappers beefing with each other and shooting at each other, and commenters celebrate the lifestyle and keep detailed ontologies of it all. Nobody is talking about nuking any of these platforms from existence just because of some isolated il…

People talk about threatening reddit and pulling out advertising all the time. It's also why on a random basis that reddit goes around and wipes some communities off the map. Especially when they start showing up in other media.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#395

Post by cowtools »

johnklos wrote: post #360
drexlspivey wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What doesn’t make sense to me is why is Cloudflare harassed for providing an utility to some bad actors while other traditional providers aren’t? Is Comcast getting any flak for providing internet to the KKK offices? Or their water provider? Is Netflix getting any complains for providing entertainment to terrorists? Or vodafone for mobile connectivity? Why is it different for cloudflare?

It's because Cloudflare actively protects these bad actors. They host DNS, they host proxy services, and they hide identifying information from WHOIS. They say they won't listen to anything short of a court order, so now we have to convene juries and get indictments to get Cloudflare to do anything at all. Cloudflare is playing a big game. Comparing Cloudflare protecting bad actors to the water company providing wate…

No post body was provided.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#396

Post by fortran77 »

fullstop wrote: post #92
nemo44x wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is hate speech? Was Charlie Hebdo hate speech? Rushdie? A lot of people certainly think so. I see hate speech across nearly every internet platform including this one. There’s no shortage of hate speech against wealthy people or white men, etc. Is that allowed?

I'm not here to define hate speech, and I think that you'd agree that HN was not designed to encourage and promote hate speech. You absolutely can not say the same thing of Kiwifarms. Let's not be deliberately obtuse here.

I see a lot of vile speech directed toward me on Hacker News.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#397

Post by richbell »

jdgoesmarching wrote: post #303
boastful_inaba wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In previous years, the admin noticed a repeated monthly pattern of DDOS attacks, and believed that it was due to the cycle of people getting welfare/disability and spending as much as they could each month on rent-a-DDOS services.

I’ve read some hilariously out-of-touch comments on this site, but this might take the cake. You know what else happens on a monthly basis? Normal paychecks. Only some ivory tower conservative could believe people on welfare or disability are throwing money at tech nerd services to bring them down. What an incredible victim complex.

> I’ve read some hilariously out-of-touch comments on this site, but this might take the cake. You know what else happens on a monthly basis? Normal paychecks.

IIRC the context of that quote was that Kiwi Farms has/had several people constantly filing frivolous lawsuits against it who were literally on welfare/government support.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#398

Post by yanderekko »

phillipcarter wrote: post #277
Mezzie wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is probably that KF mocks individuals in easy to locate and follow threads. 4-Chan's set up is just too chaotic; proving that 4-Chan is going after a specific person would be...difficult. KF organizes its mocking into easily discoverable forums and threads, which makes it easy for the individuals in question to find all the nastiness. Finding ANYTHING with any kind of historical evidence on 4-Chan is d…

It's also a cultural thing. 4chan is not a place where you go obsess over one particular person with aims to ruin their life. It's, as you say, a place of chaos and inanity.

> 4chan is not a place where you go obsess over one particular person with aims to ruin their life.

Uh, this has happened many times. The thing is that it's more difficult to systematically document.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#399

Post by antiufo »

flumpcakes wrote: post #340
antiufo wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trans woman here, both 1) access to HRT for minors and 2) HRT without medical/parental gatekeeping are widely supported positions in the trans community (which I also endorse). Rationale for 1. It's widely supported by the medical community and by scientific studies, and helps improve the quality of life of people with gender dysphoria. Rationale for 2. Gatekeeping traditionally consist in telling a psychiatrist anec…

Anyone ( anyone regardless of anything) who said they believed giving any medicine to a child without parental consent, even implying subterfuge, to me is extremely dangerous and I would pull my child out of any activity/school/club if there was someone there with those views in a responsible role of the children. For that reason I think attitudes like this do more harm for the trans community than good. If I knew a…

Abortion is another example where minors are allowed to make decisions by themselves. Which is particularly important when you have politically heated topics like these, where the medical literature and your average parent often hold very different views.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#400

Post by MichaelCollins »

prvit wrote: post #365
MichaelCollins wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Didn't he previously say he took down the nazi site because they were saying that the reason they weren't taken down was that he agreed with them? And about that decision, he said this: > Let me be clear: this was an arbitrary decision. It was different than what I’d talked talked with our senior team about yesterday. I woke up this morning in a bad mood and decided to kick them off the Internet. I called our legal…

I wonder if he's actually so delusional to think that he's got the power to decide what goes on the internet, or if this is just something Cloudflare marketing is trying to push to make them seem like the only option anyone could possibly work with.

I think his consternation is performative.
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