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U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

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Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#311

Post by LoveMortuus »

LoveMortuus wrote: post #250
midoridensha wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>One of the greatest failings of our "modern" healthcare system is that there's no plan to address this crisis. Obesity is the gateway to what seems like an infinite amount of health complications What are they supposed to do? Obesity is caused by American's terrible lifestyle. Healthcare systems can only do so much to compensate for a bad lifestyle. Stop drinking alcohol, and start walking everywhere instead of driv…

They could also try obesity tax, where you're taxed more of you're obese.

Money is quite a good motivator, especially when it's being taken away from you.

Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#312

Post by anchochilis »

wsc981 wrote: post #308
anchochilis wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This thread is full of people commenting along the lines of " I have been able to manage my weight successfully, so other people must be fat because they're lazy idiots." HN is full of people who will accept nuance and complexity in technical discussions. Why not in this area as well, where individual biology, cultural expectations, economic incentives, and environmental factors intersect with personal choice?

Look at this video with fragments from England and Ireland 120 years ago. https://twitter.com/bo66ie29/status/1565100701755314180?s=20... How many fat people you see? Do you think human biology changed a lot the past 120 years? I think just a bit of movement each day and eating healthy food is enough for 99% of people to prevent getting overweight.

The very point I'm trying to make is that human nature has not changed in the past 120 years. What has changed is the social and technological context in which we live.

Take a group of people from the 1900s and drop them in to the US in 2022, they would likely experience obesity at similar rates.

It's not that people made more virtuous choices in 1900, it's that food was scarcer, less palatable, and more nutritious, and physical activity was a part of daily life.

A busy suburban parent in a 2-income household did not need to squeeze in time to make a home-cooked meal and a Peloton workout around a 9-5 desk job with an hour+ car commute.

Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#313

Post by pmarreck »

midoridensha wrote: post #75
pmarreck wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it’s not a lifestyle problem. neither willpower nor lifestyles have changed much. processed carbs being addictive, however… medication that treats it like the medical problem it is, instead of berating people for a lack of willpower that they were never missing to begin with, will fix it https://www.mounjaro.com/

It's absolutely a lifestyle problem. Americans have a shitty car-based lifestyle that causes obesity. Go to Manhattan and see how many obese people you see; there aren't many. Or go to any other country where people walk a lot. This is uniquely a western, and especially American problem.

Correlation is not causation. Manhattan has many thins because thins are more likely to make more money and get better jobs in high-standard-of-living areas due to commanding more respect. (Which they mostly do not deserve, being mainly the beneficiaries of good genes, but I digress) Also, most people move out to the ‘burbs to raise kids, so Manhattan is strongly weighted towards the under-40 set.

> any other country

OK let’s pick Germany. (I’m German.) Most Germans are thin because they don’t eat many carbs at all. Orange juice is expensive and piss-poor compared to sugary American OJ. Breakfast typically consists of unleavened-style breads, mustard, and meats. Gas is super expensive so everybody walks or bikes. But guess what? Obesity is steadily rising there too! Gosh, I wonder why, with all that walking and biking? Wait, I know… They just need MORE walking and biking, that must be it!

Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#314

Post by pmarreck »

switchbak wrote: post #97
pmarreck wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it’s not a lifestyle problem. neither willpower nor lifestyles have changed much. processed carbs being addictive, however… medication that treats it like the medical problem it is, instead of berating people for a lack of willpower that they were never missing to begin with, will fix it https://www.mounjaro.com/

Lifestyles haven't changed? Come now, in just my lifetime I've seen kids go from being outside everywhere playing until dark, to being mostly inside all day. And I live in a very active community! With regards to changes in willpower, that seems like a strong assertion, got any sources on that? 100% agree that our diet (generally) has changed drastically. But I don't get your jump of why medication has to be the solu…

> With regards to changes in willpower, that seems like a strong assertion, got any sources on that?

How is it a strong assertion that willpower HAS NOT changed? Isn’t that the null hypothesis? It seems to me that you’d need evidence that it HAS changed

Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#315

Post by pmarreck »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #218
pmarreck wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it’s not a lifestyle problem. neither willpower nor lifestyles have changed much. processed carbs being addictive, however… medication that treats it like the medical problem it is, instead of berating people for a lack of willpower that they were never missing to begin with, will fix it https://www.mounjaro.com/

> medication that treats it like the medical problem it is That was the approach in the 50s and 60s with amphetamines as an appetite killer. That didn't work out well.

That’s because amphetamines were a piss-poor solution. Meds like Mounjaro, which directly eliminate hunger hormonally in the brain instead of simply being a side-effect of brain overstimulation, seem like a significantly better option to me

Disclaimer: Been on Mounjaro for 1 month and have lost 15 pounds absolutely effortlessly and with zero side effects

Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#316

Post by godelski »

jjav wrote: post #309
Hextinium wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdote time: I currently live in Texas, the closest grocery store is a hour walk. While living in Colorado it was a hour and a half, and in Florida it was 2 hours, all of these where easy 5 minute trips by a car and an excursion by foot.

If it was a 2 hour by foot, assuming an average of 3 mph walking, that's 6 miles away. For that to be a 5 minute trip by car you need to drive 72mph. Reasonable on the interstate but as your driveway (nor the store entrance) are directly on an interstate, there has to be at least some stretch of slower driving bringing the average down, so the speed on the interstate section would have to be much higher to bring the…

You're assuming a straight line and constant speeds. While this is naive for both situations the error will not average out.

Let me give a direct example. I pulled up google maps and what is a 10 minute car prediction (2.8 mi) is also a 54 minute walking estimation (2.7 mi) and a 17 minute bike estimation (2.8 mi). Also, 33-43 minutes by bus fwiw

Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#317

Post by nightski »

tdeck wrote: post #300
nightski wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's too bad. In the area around where I live I have yet to encounter a suburb that doesn't have sidewalks! I understand what you meant by "walkability". I also don't think it's fun or practical. I tend to visit a lot of different stores, not just one or two. But I only go out shopping once a week or two, not daily. That sounds exhausting. I also hate super dense living being packed in like sardines with everyone e…

> But I only go out shopping once a week or two, not daily. That sounds exhausting. It's not exhausting when it's just a couple of blocks away. I live about 5 a minute walk from our local grocery store, so it can be a nice break to pop over there for a couple things multiple times a week. There's no ceremony to it at all since there's no hassle of parking and it's easy to go when the store isn't crowded. An added ben…

Exhausting in the time sense. I don't have much free time and the little I do I value a lot. Even if it is a few blocks that's a 30 minute trip each day.

Sure it can be fun occasionally, but I'd hate to do it regularly.

Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#318

Post by hydrolox »

diogenescynic wrote: post #10

I make a decent salary and so does my wife. We have two kids and we still don’t own a home. People I know who don’t work in tech are really struggling. There are multiple US cities without clean drinking water. It seems like the US is mostly in constant decline with a few elite city/states able to avoid the consequences. As a result, people eat junk food, go to the doctor less, have more stress, drive everywhere, no…

No post body was provided.

Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#319

Post by zepppotemkin »

californical wrote: post #106
zepppotemkin wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be nice but I don't see that happening outside of boutique cities like bentonville you really need to start fresh or force it before hitting the inflection point

When things like tax revenue-per-acre starts adding up, it’ll also be more affordable to live in denser areas. By removing zoning restrictions, some communities will start becoming more walkable & mixed-use than others. Since it’s more cost efficient, it’ll be cheaper to own a townhome in a dense area than an equivalent townhome in a sprawling area (after the market equalizes & we can keep up with demand, because it’…

everything's possible it's hard for me to imagine how it would work in some sprawling places like texas eg. houston or austin

I could that happening new/growing suburbs outside of cities like that though like as you say if they commit to a sane design/zoning before it's to late

Re: U.S. life expectancy drops sharply, the second consecutive decline

#320

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS »

JoyfulTurkey wrote: post #39
SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quitting alcohol and going to OMAD (one meal a day) helped me lose 20 kilos in < 2 months. And I wasn’t even obese, that was straight from overweight to goal weight. Alcohol is an enormous contributor to weight for several different reasons. Plus, the weight you get as a drinker (the “hard” fat) is the worst kind of fat your body can have.

Wow, 20 kilos in less than 2 months seems like a heck of a lot. Any issues with gallstones? I lost a nice bit of weight at the start of the pandemic when I stopped drinking (primarily a beer drinker). It is really surprising how much of an effect it can have.

No issues with gallstones. It was 230 lb to 185 lbs also at the start of the pandemic (May-July 2020). I have managed to mostly keep it off (currently 190, but have yo-yo’d back up to 200 once), despite resuming drinking and being a semi heavy drinker. Mostly due to diligence around keeping an OMAD style diet.
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