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Day ahead electricity prices for EU

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Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#491

Post by djhaskin987 »

Current price in Utah, USA is $106.30 per megawatt hour, easily four times less than many of the prices I'm seeing in the EU. About 14% of our electricity comes from renewables[1], I'm pretty sure the rest is coal. My wife's cousin works in a coal mine that's owned by one of the power plants in the state. It's fun to hear stories from him seeing dinosaur tracks and other fossils down in the coal mines where he works.

1: https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.eia.gov/state/analy...

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#492

Post by throwaway2037 »

wongarsu wrote: post #392
throwaway2037 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real question: What is the largest tidal power installation in the world? Why do we see so little of it?

We don't see large tidal power installations because they are not every economical so far. In theory there's a lot of energy to be won, but the salt water causes corrosion issues, and maintenance gets expensive quickly

This is a very good post. I never before considered the issue of corrosion. To that point, does this also affect offshore wind power generation (turbines)? I guess the difference will be: the turbine is not underwater!

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#493

Post by throwaway2037 »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #477
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Britain is the best position country in Europe for wind and tidal power. There was a project to pay down cable to import reliable, cheap 24/7 power from Iceland and hobernment said 'nah'. They also cancelled a 340 MW tidal project

Is wind power even worth the investment? From disposal issues to wind turbines killing birds and bird habitats to sheer unreliability, wind seems to have a ton of issues.

You wrote "disposal issues": As I understand, the current generation of windmill blades are not recycled. Rather, they are sent to landfill (at least in United States -- can someone please comment for other countries that they know about? UK?). Two things to consider: (1) Fiberglass mostly inert and safe to bury. Please correct me if wrong. (2) Can future designs be recycled? I assume yes.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#494

Post by ClumsyPilot »

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #479
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent is providing valuable and spesific information on how energy market works, you are incorrecting him by reciting a generic market principle that everyone learns at school, without any insight of how it applies to situation at hand.

Hardly. Merit Order is just a particular way of setting the price similar to an auction, it still creates a normal(ish) market for electricity and demand and supply still largely determine the price, albeit not in the exact same way as a completely free market. Saying that price is "determined by the most expensive producer" without further context is still wrong.

> a completely free market

Is a 'completely free market' if not a spherical cow in a vacuum on a frictionless surface i.e. a purely theoretical concept that can never exist in real life?

Presumably a 'completely free market' allows cartells, bribes are not illegal, and there is no authority to throw me in jail if I lie about my product? So either it would collapse into a cesspool of fraud, or you have to introduce rules and then it's not free any more?

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#495

Post by mbreese »

chrisseaton wrote: post #350
grandmczeb wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fires are mostly caused by large transmission lines outside of urban areas, not local lines on residential streets.

For example https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/nation-now/2018/10/15/pg... - these are normally buried elsewhere.

This is a very common way to setup power lines in the US.

It is significantly cheaper than burying lines from an initial cost point of view, so as long as the cost of preventive maintenance is low enough, it is a viable option. Particularly if the cost to fix lines is also low.

As an added bonus, it then also becomes easier to hang other lines (telephone, cable, fiber) on the same poles. This more difficult to do with buried lines, even if the lines are in conduit.

I’d prefer my electrical lines to be buried too, but I at least understand why they aren’t.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#496

Post by throwaway2037 »

victornomad wrote: post #437
MomoXenosaga wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an ideal world countries like Spain and Greece invest in solar but they're completely incompetent. So you get the absurd situation that the Netherlands is European leader in solar energy lol. Most densely populated country in Europe has solar parks for fuck sake.

Spain has the 3rd installed capacity of solar power in Europe[1] and 2nd position in wind power[2]. It could be much better but also much worse :) The previous government in Spain halted lots of funding for new power plants but as far as I know there is a lots of projects going on now. I expect to see a significant increment in the next years. Also, in the Netherlands most of solar is installed in roofs, while in Spa…

I notice similar in Tokyo, Japan. There is so little rooftop solar installations, it is crazy. I assume it is a combination of economic and regulatory factors. At the very least, most of the outdoor train stations have very long platform coverings / roofs. These could certainly be covered with solar panels.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#497

Post by throwaway2037 »

kyriakos wrote: post #320
MomoXenosaga wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an ideal world countries like Spain and Greece invest in solar but they're completely incompetent. So you get the absurd situation that the Netherlands is European leader in solar energy lol. Most densely populated country in Europe has solar parks for fuck sake.

I live in Cyprus which experiences sunshine almost 365 days a year and has an isolated power grid from the rest of the world. We also suffer from the incompetency of Greece and Spain but I believe solar parks are not the solution. Building solar parks is a waste of land which could be used for other purposes (agriculture for example). A much better solution is to ensure every single building has solar panels on its r…

You wrote: > From a stricly economic view, many times a solar park in a very sunny place is more economically efficient than agriculture. That said, including social and political views, of course, we need enough agriculture to feed our societies!

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#498

Post by throwaway2037 »

v4dok wrote: post #336
MomoXenosaga wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an ideal world countries like Spain and Greece invest in solar but they're completely incompetent. So you get the absurd situation that the Netherlands is European leader in solar energy lol. Most densely populated country in Europe has solar parks for fuck sake.

Your comment is flame. You really don't believe that competence is the only reason solar/wind didn't scale up right? If you remember, those countries were/are almost bunkrupt, since 2010 or so. Where would these massive investments come from? I mean the north didn't even want to move away from Russia, certainly they wouldn't care for funding solar in Greece, Spain or Italy. The "Green new deal" however is a step in t…

I agree with the sentiment of this post. The finance required for green energy production is often over looked. After all, India has huge deserts in the north west of their country. Yes, they have some of the largest solar parks in the world, but why isn't 25% of it covered with solar panels? Financing.

You wrote: > Can you explain this more? (Zero trolling.) I don't understand what you mean.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#499

Post by cplusplusfellow »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #142
google234123 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A huge fusion reactor in the sky that isn't available in the evening or when it's cloudy.

The sun is always shining somewhere. We need more interconnects.

Quick analysis of transmission losses may discourage this to an extent.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#500

Post by robocat »

andrepd wrote: post #163
kwhitefoot wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sun is always shining somewhere. We need more interconnects.

Global power transfers don't work due to losses. The physics doesn't work out.

There are many ways electricity can be converted to transportable chemical energy. We just haven’t yet done so cheaper than petroleum yet. The physics works fine, the economics not so fine (yet).
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