Day ahead electricity prices for EU • Hacker News Board

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#241

Post by ClumsyPilot » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 3:55 PM UTC

makomk wrote: post #227

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany’s obsession with solar and wind is absolutely baffling. It takes very little to know that Germany simply does not have the conditions for large scale solar. Yet it was pushed so heavily in lieu of nuclear power. Absurd.

Meanwhile over here in the UK, the press is blaming the energy crisis partly on the fact that our government didn't spend loads of money on solar and onshore wind like Germany. We're even worse situated to benefit from solar than they are. (The renewable program here is mostly focused on offshore wind, which is the least-bad option given our geography, plus attempts at nuclear that are widely criticized by the press…

Britain is the best position country in Europe for wind and tidal power.

There was a project to pay down cable to import reliable, cheap 24/7 power from Iceland and hobernment said 'nah'. They also cancelled a 340 MW tidal project

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#242

Post by ClumsyPilot » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 3:57 PM UTC

number6 wrote: post #229

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but nuclear fuel can be sourced from elsewhere - it does not have the steep physical barriers of nat gas. And any existing nuclear power issues can be solved. The amount of sunlight your receive, however, will always be the same.

How do you solve that the rivers are too hot to cool the reactors to produce more energy?

We have built reactors in literal deserts, but the cooling system needs to bw different ofcourse

https://min.news/en/tech/30bdf6748162428883857d361132e177.ht...

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#243

Post by mbreese » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 3:58 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #218

vorpalhex wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California has to shut down their grid occasionally just because it's in such poor repair that wildfires are a risk. I can't imagine how they are going to handle everyone getting EVs.

In most places electricity cables are buried. In California they have them blowing around in the trees so they start fires.

This isn’t true. In most places I’ve been, electrical lines have all been elevated on poles. Where I currently live, there is a pretty intensive line clearing program each spring to keep the lines clear. Even in places where house level lines were buried, the middle transmission lines were still elevated.

And I believe all high voltage transmission lines are above ground.

The difference is that California historically has fire prone conditions. It’s not like the rest of the country is doing something different and California has done something inherently wrong. It’s that California did what the rest of the country was doing, but without conditions to support it.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#244

Post by ohgodplsno » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 3:59 PM UTC

sph wrote: post #216

ohgodplsno wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDF, the French electricity provider is able to produce electricity at about 20€/MWh. It is forced to sell it to leeches (read: "competition"), up to 100TWh, at 42€/MWh through a mechanism called ARENH. Should they need this 100TWh (and they do), they are forced to buy it at current market prices, or anywhere between 530 and 715€/MWh. The "competition" are resellers that have not installed a single MW of production,…

> It is forced to sell it to leeches By whom?

EDF is owned at 80% by the state, and the state has instituted the ARENH through law. Needless to say, EDF not going into this would mean someone else is replaced at the head and it still goes on. It's a classic starve the beast play.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#245

Post by voqv » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 4:00 PM UTC

number6 wrote: post #229

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but nuclear fuel can be sourced from elsewhere - it does not have the steep physical barriers of nat gas. And any existing nuclear power issues can be solved. The amount of sunlight your receive, however, will always be the same.

How do you solve that the rivers are too hot to cool the reactors to produce more energy?

This meme has to end, there’s only one nuclear power plant in France (Blayais) that has no cooling towers, and another 4 have to occasionally throttle power output due to ecological concerns (used water is too hot, they currently have temporary exceptions).

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#246

Post by anticristi » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 4:02 PM UTC

tmikaeld wrote: post #151

sprak wrote: post #23

Sweden has four zones and according to [1] tomorrow's price will be from north to south: Zone 1: 14,25 cents/kWh Zone 2: 14,25 cents/kWh Zone 3: 108,64 cents/kWh Zone 4: 201,63 cents/kWh 1 Swedish krona is 0,094 USD. So between 1,3 and 20 American cents per kWh. Most people live in Zone 3 followed by Zone 4. Facebook's datacenter is in Zone 1. [1]: https://elen.nu

The disturbing thing is that Zone 4 has to pay export prices, when it would be fairer to pay pre-export prices. It's already starting to bankrupt businesses in Zone 4, that are calling for immediate changes [0]. [0] https://www.di.se/live/efter-elprissmockan-skanska-foretag-v...

Hello from zone 4. Indeed, people here are pretty pissed about this. Basically, if an exporting transmission line got damaged, zone 4 prices would drop instantly.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#247

Post by kzrdude » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 4:02 PM UTC

Tenoke wrote: post #156

locallost wrote: post #95

This is nothing. If you want to panic, check the futures markets for the next 2 quarters, especially France. So I think short term we are pretty screwed. But I think if you can produce electricity at 1/10 or even 1/20 of the price, wouldn't you be adding new capacity now? The only fast option are renewables, so my wild guess is that there will be so much new capacity added in the next years, the bottleneck will not b…

Should I panic enough in Germany to be wise to consider moving away? Where as a European?

Time to go to Tromsø. Forget about autobahn or even seeing the sun in the winter. Time for us to emigrate in northern norway where the electricity is still cheap.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#248

Post by sofixa » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 4:02 PM UTC

Tarsul wrote: post #70

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No matter what magic plan anyone comes up with it would take years to implement. Nuclear, more insulation, hydrogen, new gas fields. It's almost winter already.

the magic plan should be to consume less and less and less. If we would consume 20% less, which should be absolutely doable, these problems would alleviate itself quite fast (well, we still should invest as much as we can in renewables). However, for that to happen we would need to have governments that are not afraid and act.

> If we would consume 20% less, which should be absolutely doable, these problems would alleviate itself quite fast (well, we still should invest as much as we can in renewables). However, for that to happen we would need to have governments that are not afraid and act.

Act how exactly? How do you propose on forcing everyone, citizens and enterprises, to consume less energy? Why would they want to do that? Transition to less energy intensive alternatives sure (like LEDs), but that's not easy, will require massive investments and is by the way already in progress.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#249

Post by anonporridge » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 4:02 PM UTC

KptMarchewa wrote: post #124

Tade0 wrote: post #86

Electricity map gives a more detailed view on the situation, including imports/exports: https://electricitymaps.com/ Poland has an interesting story behind the price: the government passed legislation which switched from net-metering to net-billing with the start of April, so people rushed to build as many home PV installations as possible to get grandfathered into the previous scheme. A whopping 4-5GW estimated was…

Also, we barely use gas - price is mostly driven by coal.

I imagine Poland was much more paranoid than Germany about becoming overly dependent on Russian gas.

Of course, now Germany is scrambling to turn coal plants back online.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#250

Post by kzrdude » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 4:03 PM UTC

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #56

biehl wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes sense for Denmark to have two, as each of them is connected to different larger markets and have limited interconnection between each other.

It would also make sense for Germany but they don’t want two zones. That also causes issues for connected countries.

Sweden doesn't want more than one zone either, but was forced into it.