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Day ahead electricity prices for EU

euenergy.live

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Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#51

Post by [deleted] »

gruez wrote: post #24
bitL wrote: post #4

I've read somewhere that Czechs (day ahead price of 463EUR/MWh) produce electricity at 0.1EUR/MWh, then sell it to an exchange in Germany and buy it back for the "market" price. Somebody over there is getting extremely rich for no reason and I am wondering why nobody is doing anything about it...

You must have omitted something in your example because it makes no sense. >Czechs produce electricity at 0.1EUR/MWh so far so good. Now you have -0.1EUR and 1MWh of power. >then sell it to an exchange in Germany suppose the market price is 400EUR. after selling it to an exchange you have 399.9EUR and 0 MWh of power >and buy it back for the "market" price. so you buy it back at the market price. Now you have -0.1EUR…

[deleted]

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#52

Post by blibble »

bitL wrote: post #4

I've read somewhere that Czechs (day ahead price of 463EUR/MWh) produce electricity at 0.1EUR/MWh, then sell it to an exchange in Germany and buy it back for the "market" price. Somebody over there is getting extremely rich for no reason and I am wondering why nobody is doing anything about it...

that's the advantage of the Single Market

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#53

Post by [deleted] »

bitL wrote: post #34
capableweb wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why nobody is doing anything about it > I've read somewhere Before wondering why someone, somewhere is not doing something, confirm that the thing is actually happening in the first place.

OK, what's the truth then? I am not an expert on this, though just today I saw some LinkedIn post of some trader explaining merit price on energy market and in the chart the nuclear power was two orders of magnitude cheaper than gas/combined power but the final price was at the level of gas/combined power.

[deleted]

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#54

Post by gruez »

mandmandam wrote: post #32
dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how a market works. You say "Czechs" but it's Czech producers and Czech consumers (respectively) making those transactions. Where the market is situated is irrelevant. If you're making electricity that cheaply right now you are indeed getting rich, and so you should. The market is what is doing something about it. Prices will moderate over time as inefficient producers are pushed out and as consumers reduce th…

> Prices will moderate over time as inefficient producers are pushed out and as consumers reduce their usage due to high prices. Electricity isn't optional. "The market" didn't make water, or housing, or waste, or healthcare, or telecoms, etc, cheaper once privatized. In fact, it didn't make energy cheaper in the countries that privatized it.

>Electricity isn't optional

food isn't optional either. How well did nationalized food production work out?

>"The market" didn't make water, or housing, or waste, or healthcare, or telecoms, etc, cheaper once privatized.

I can get the source for each of those claims? Some of them seem dubious, eg. housing. Was housing ever not privatized?

>In fact, it didn't make energy cheaper in the countries that privatized it.

well if we're talking about "energy" in general (ie. not just electricity), I can point out a counter-example of PDVSA going to shit after it was nationalized.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#55

Post by chii »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #28
capableweb wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why nobody is doing anything about it > I've read somewhere Before wondering why someone, somewhere is not doing something, confirm that the thing is actually happening in the first place.

I have no clue about Czechia but that’s basically happening in Austria. Austria mainly produces energy from renewables which did not go up in price buy since the price on the exchanges is determined by the most expensive source we still pay exorbitant prices. Producers are making all the money right now.

which would give more producers (and wana-be-producers) the incentive to invest in renewables to take a piece of that profit pie.

Doesnt seem like a bad outcome tbh.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#56

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

biehl wrote: post #19
JohnTordur wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not Germany, they have single price zone which is absolutely insane. Denmark has two and is much smaller.

It makes sense for Denmark to have two, as each of them is connected to different larger markets and have limited interconnection between each other.

It would also make sense for Germany but they don’t want two zones. That also causes issues for connected countries.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#57

Post by admissionsguy »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #45
admissionsguy wrote: post #35

My move to Sweden continues to pay unexpected dividends. And what the map shows is I suppose based on the average for the whole country - it's several times cheaper in the north (the "real" Sweden with auroras and stuff) than in the south. Let's be real though, the society will fall apart before energy costs become a big problem for people working in tech.

Where did you live before? How hard was it to move there?

Poland. As an EU citizen working online, it was as easy as buying a plane ticket, renting an AirBNB, registering a company, and waiting over a year until I got connected to the healthcare / social security system and such.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#58

Post by fest »

bitL wrote: post #4

I've read somewhere that Czechs (day ahead price of 463EUR/MWh) produce electricity at 0.1EUR/MWh, then sell it to an exchange in Germany and buy it back for the "market" price. Somebody over there is getting extremely rich for no reason and I am wondering why nobody is doing anything about it...

Some politicians in Latvia are using the same rhetoric: our hydro plants have a production cost of 0.1x/MWh, but nordpool price is xMWh. Somebody is stuffing their pockets!!

What they don't say is: some of our hydro plants are being maintained and the rest are capable of generating a fraction of country's needs. Sure, some of the money goes to small privately owned plants, but the most goes to large state-owned plants, who are (ideally) using the money to upgrade their equipment and the rest goes to government as dividends, which will probably be spent to support heating expenses in winter..

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#59

Post by samuel »

Cantinflas wrote: post #9

AFAIK Spain prices are not "real" in the sense that gas prices have been "capped" and electricity users have to pay generation companies that use gas a variable fee to compensate that cap. Real end-user price is likely double

THIS.

The compensation adds 243.57eur/MWh to the final price for Spain.

https://www.omie.es/es/market-results/daily/average-final-pr...

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#60

Post by bjourne »

Remember that, while prices have soared, electricity generation has not become more expensive. The "electricity crisis" is a crisis for European consumers but a massive windfall for producers. This is a market failure - not an electricity failure.
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