Live data from Hacker News

Day ahead electricity prices for EU

euenergy.live

31–40 of 596 posts

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#31
post #4

I've read somewhere that Czechs (day ahead price of 463EUR/MWh) produce electricity at 0.1EUR/MWh, then sell it to an exchange in Germany and buy it back for the "market" price. Somebody over there is getting extremely rich for no reason and I am wondering why nobody is doing anything about it...

I've read somewhere that Earth has 4 corner simultaneous 4-day, and that was from the wisest man on earth.

Best not to believe everything you read :)

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#32
post #4

I've read somewhere that Czechs (day ahead price of 463EUR/MWh) produce electricity at 0.1EUR/MWh, then sell it to an exchange in Germany and buy it back for the "market" price. Somebody over there is getting extremely rich for no reason and I am wondering why nobody is doing anything about it...

That's how a market works. You say "Czechs" but it's Czech producers and Czech consumers (respectively) making those transactions. Where the market is situated is irrelevant. If you're making electricity that cheaply right now you are indeed getting rich, and so you should. The market is what is doing something about it. Prices will moderate over time as inefficient producers are pushed out and as consumers reduce th…

> Prices will moderate over time as inefficient producers are pushed out and as consumers reduce their usage due to high prices.

Electricity isn't optional. "The market" didn't make water, or housing, or waste, or healthcare, or telecoms, etc, cheaper once privatized. In fact, it didn't make energy cheaper in the countries that privatized it.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#34
post #4

I've read somewhere that Czechs (day ahead price of 463EUR/MWh) produce electricity at 0.1EUR/MWh, then sell it to an exchange in Germany and buy it back for the "market" price. Somebody over there is getting extremely rich for no reason and I am wondering why nobody is doing anything about it...

> why nobody is doing anything about it > I've read somewhere Before wondering why someone, somewhere is not doing something, confirm that the thing is actually happening in the first place.

OK, what's the truth then? I am not an expert on this, though just today I saw some LinkedIn post of some trader explaining merit price on energy market and in the chart the nuclear power was two orders of magnitude cheaper than gas/combined power but the final price was at the level of gas/combined power.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#35
My move to Sweden continues to pay unexpected dividends. And what the map shows is I suppose based on the average for the whole country - it's several times cheaper in the north (the "real" Sweden with auroras and stuff) than in the south.

Let's be real though, the society will fall apart before energy costs become a big problem for people working in tech.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#36
post #24
post #4

I've read somewhere that Czechs (day ahead price of 463EUR/MWh) produce electricity at 0.1EUR/MWh, then sell it to an exchange in Germany and buy it back for the "market" price. Somebody over there is getting extremely rich for no reason and I am wondering why nobody is doing anything about it...

You must have omitted something in your example because it makes no sense. >Czechs produce electricity at 0.1EUR/MWh so far so good. Now you have -0.1EUR and 1MWh of power. >then sell it to an exchange in Germany suppose the market price is 400EUR. after selling it to an exchange you have 399.9EUR and 0 MWh of power >and buy it back for the "market" price. so you buy it back at the market price. Now you have -0.1EUR…

That would be two different people/organizations.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#37
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not Germany, they have single price zone which is absolutely insane. Denmark has two and is much smaller.

It makes sense for Denmark to have two, as each of them is connected to different larger markets and have limited interconnection between each other.

Western half of Denmark is on the european/continental synchronous grid and the eastern half of Denmark is on the nordic synchronous grid.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#38
post #4

I've read somewhere that Czechs (day ahead price of 463EUR/MWh) produce electricity at 0.1EUR/MWh, then sell it to an exchange in Germany and buy it back for the "market" price. Somebody over there is getting extremely rich for no reason and I am wondering why nobody is doing anything about it...

That doesn't happen.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#39
post #4

I've read somewhere that Czechs (day ahead price of 463EUR/MWh) produce electricity at 0.1EUR/MWh, then sell it to an exchange in Germany and buy it back for the "market" price. Somebody over there is getting extremely rich for no reason and I am wondering why nobody is doing anything about it...

That would almost certainly be the price per kilowatt-hour, not megawatt-hour, which would make a MWh ~100EUR. Anybody that is getting rich on the energy markets right now is either because they're better at betting on future energy prices than their rivals, or they have the ability to produce electricity when demand for it is extraordinarily high (both of which would qualify as 'a reason').

Thanks, will need to find the source again and see if it was indeed 0.1/kWh and not MWh (talking about production costs at a cheaper country with nuclear power plants fully paid for in the past).

EDIT: Just found out production costs from another source:

Dukovany Nuclear Power Plant - 20.31EUR/MWh

Temelin Nuclear Power Plant - 34.52EUR/MWh

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#40

by that measure Swedish datacenters should be oversubscribed

That data centres in Sweden pay almost no electricity tax (5 SEK/MWh if I remember correctly) while consumers pay 36 is not popular with everyone. The map doesn't show that Sweden is divided into four areas. SE1 and SE2, the northernmost two and where some data centres are, have prices that most days are in the single-SEK/MWh range while in SE3 the prices might be tens of times higher. SE4, the southernmost area, has even higher prices due to the fact that (1) power is exported to markets where it is even more expensive and (2) because plants have closed down. The transmission capacity between SE3 and SE4 tends to be maxed out (as evidenced by the fact that prices differ).

AWS is in SE3, where the electricity is tens to a hundred times more expensive than for Facebook in SE1.

Post reply on HN