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Day ahead electricity prices for EU

euenergy.live

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Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#161

Post by konschubert »

locallost wrote: post #95

This is nothing. If you want to panic, check the futures markets for the next 2 quarters, especially France. So I think short term we are pretty screwed. But I think if you can produce electricity at 1/10 or even 1/20 of the price, wouldn't you be adding new capacity now? The only fast option are renewables, so my wild guess is that there will be so much new capacity added in the next years, the bottleneck will not b…

Actually for Sunday the day-ahead prices look quite low: https://energy-charts.info/charts/price_spot_market/chart.ht...

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#162

Post by konschubert »

locallost wrote: post #95

This is nothing. If you want to panic, check the futures markets for the next 2 quarters, especially France. So I think short term we are pretty screwed. But I think if you can produce electricity at 1/10 or even 1/20 of the price, wouldn't you be adding new capacity now? The only fast option are renewables, so my wild guess is that there will be so much new capacity added in the next years, the bottleneck will not b…

Bottlenecks are:

- Planning permissions take too long

- Solar panels and especially inverters are hard to get

- Labour to install is scarce. Electricians give you appointments next year.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#163

Post by andrepd »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #142
google234123 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A huge fusion reactor in the sky that isn't available in the evening or when it's cloudy.

The sun is always shining somewhere. We need more interconnects.

Global power transfers don't work due to losses. The physics doesn't work out.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#164

Post by konschubert »

andrepd wrote: post #160
boshomi wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eye watering French power prices: * Baseload from nov22 to feb23 above 2000€/MWh * Peak Load nov22 to dec22 at 3000€/MWh * Peak Load Q1/23 at 2970€/MWh But the prices for other nations also went up steeply. [1] https://www.eex.com/en/market-data/power/futures#%7B%22snipp...

France has a shitload of nuclear capacity and low dependence on gas. Why is their energy rising so much?

Because their nuclear power plants are currently going belly up one after another.

Many of them are the same model, with parts from the same factory. That factory made some bad parts. They need to be exchanged. It takes a lot of time, many months.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#165

Post by Tenoke »

andrepd wrote: post #159
Tenoke wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should I panic enough in Germany to be wise to consider moving away? Where as a European?

You should definitely not move countries due to a post in hackernews.

I'm hardly hearing about the electricity issue in Europe only from a single HN post.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#166

Post by konschubert »

Ekaros wrote: post #154
dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because electricity is sold across the entire European market. Low cost producers are going to sell to those who pay the most, to maximise profit, unless they're unable to move the electricity ( or more likely 'contra' it) to where it is intended to be consumed. Just like oil. The US has cheap oil but it's a global market, so everyone pays the (more or less) the same price regardless of how close they are to the oil.

Also because electricity market is bit special how it operates. Suppliers tell what price they will sell and and then buyer at what price they will buy. And the price for all transactions will be set at highest match of supply to demand. Because demand side has no upper price limit the whole market price can raise to very high. Ofc, this ignores cases of own production, futures and so on.

You're describing an auction principle. It's called merit-order.

It is very efficient at creating a transparent market and finding the "natural" market price. The same price that a free and transparent market would converge to.

The alternative are price caps. Which could be considered. But it's a choice between free and non-free markets.

Blaming merit-order is shooting the messenger.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#168

Post by boshomi »

andrepd wrote: post #160
boshomi wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eye watering French power prices: * Baseload from nov22 to feb23 above 2000€/MWh * Peak Load nov22 to dec22 at 3000€/MWh * Peak Load Q1/23 at 2970€/MWh But the prices for other nations also went up steeply. [1] https://www.eex.com/en/market-data/power/futures#%7B%22snipp...

France has a shitload of nuclear capacity and low dependence on gas. Why is their energy rising so much?

Only 23GW out of 60GW of French nuclar power capacity is working.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#169

Post by MonkeyMalarky »

maxerickson wrote: post #148
MonkeyMalarky wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Friend sells his surplus energy to provider x at low price Sorry if this is a dumb question but why can't he sell at the going rate for international grid?

The grid operator won't make an agreement to move a little bit of power that is advantageous to the small producer. So in essence, because they can't get it there.

Sounds like they're exploiting their monopoly over the connections that small producers need.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#170

Post by bushbaba »

nickpp wrote: post #144
bushbaba wrote: post #140

Wonder why the EU hasn’t stepped in with rationing and price controls. This is price gouging to the detriment of its citizens.

Rationing and price controls is how you end up with shortages. A functioning market will provide the motivation to search, find and finance solutions instead.

The functioning market will decimate industry and impact the poor. It’s a long term disaster.

This is something where China has done a good job. The EU should plan who gets the energy available and how much to charge. Otherwise the EU will be dealt a blow to industry so large it might not ever recover.

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